National Retriever Championship, Nov 13 - 19 - Page 2 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 11:20 PM
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Yikes! Series 2 is tight, tight, scary tight.
I thought that they might get pull to the left on the water out by the LR but it looks like to many early factors are pulling them right before they get there.

How is hooking a gun scored in the Qual?
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 05:37 AM
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Ha! 70 yard flyers!! This is crazy because on Thursday R and me were discussing all the set ups about judging and I asked what about a close flyer, how bad is that for the dog? I wanted to talk about how influential that is when screwing up a dogs concentration on the far marks and all of that. He said, that is kind of old school, they used to do it way more than they do it now but that it can be deadly. I said, around 50 60 yards and he said, oh no, further than that at least 100. Well, I guess the judges heard our conversation because 70 yards is really close!

Another thing is the splash on the bird!! R has been noticing a pattern right now about birds falling in the water again. Its a new "fade" going around here (I don't know about other parts of the country) and boy oh boy those birds landing in the water are really messing with all different aged dogs!! This test is LOADED! I can't wait to see R and talk about all of this!

And just to make sure I'm doing this right, cause I just woke up and looked, I would go for the flyer, then the easy right bird and down the middle for the long punch bird? I don't know it doesn't look that way on this test.

Oh look here is Al discussing it with diagrams, broke it down pretty well. hope he has the "midas" touch this week, ha ha.

[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]

And as for hooking guns in derby. Well, it depends on the test. AT the easier tests its a deal breaker. At a Baker test (and that is what they call them down here when Baker shows up) hooking a gun can still get a first place.

Proofers got his steak for a job well done!

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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hollyk View Post
Yikes! Series 2 is tight, tight, scary tight.
I thought that they might get pull to the left on the water out by the LR but it looks like to many early factors are pulling them right before they get there.

How is hooking a gun scored in the Qual?
That's a tough question for field trial judging because, unlike a hunt test where the dogs are judged against a standard (i.e., Pass/Fail), each dog's performance is judged against the other dogs' performances.
That said, hooking a gun will be noted in the drawing each judge makes in his/her book, but it's not a huge deal ... and if all other dogs hook the gun, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever.
There's a not infrequent discussion about hooking a gun that goes like this ... if the throw is severe angle back and Dog 1 passes near the gun but behind it, is that better or worse than the dog that "bananas" into the mark from the front side of the gunner?
And as I mentioned before, if the gun is retired, there's no such thing as "hooking the gun" because it's not present.
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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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Holy Cow, what a difference a day makes!

For some reason which is not apparent from what is posted so far, the test has become more challenging ... there's now a higher % of handles/double-handles/pick-ups!
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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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Double blinds (one land, one water) for the 3rd and 4th series.
Notably, the judges did not "accessorize" either blind with a poison bird, dry shot or gunner in the field.

The land blind appears to require that the dog have discipline to hold a line on the side of a slope; it also sounds like a loopy sit could get a dog in trouble.
The water blind, with a no-see'm entry, has only a sliver of water for the dog to get in, and that sliver seems to be out at a pretty good distance ... one of the test dogs missed the sliver.

It's very difficult to set up blinds, especially land blinds, to challenge the dogs so much as to cause an elimination ... they are just so darned good on blinds!
But missing the water will get a dog tossed, and probably getting lost behind a mound will be a big ding.
It'll be interesting to see how this one goes.
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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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The drone shots of the 3rd and 4th series are great and show how far out that corner of the pond is from the line.
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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 03:05 PM
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Got it, retired gunners.

I was wondering pick up order in the 2nd too. In my hunt test training for this series would pick up outside, outside, inside. (We do train for primary selection too have that in my pocket.)
In FT's is it generally long bird first?????

Here in the 2nd I think Flyer first no matter how you train, too in your face.
It looks like some were picking up LR next. How amazing to be able to communicate that line past the tight MR.

Off to look at the double blinds.
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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 04:02 PM
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Holly, where I'm at in training this is how I'm told to pick up the birds. I'm told to pick up the go bird, then the short bird and then the long bird last. The reason for this is because if the dog is going to the long bird, it might change its mind and go to the short bird. That is fine, but then it burns its line to the long bird as in his head is thinking he already went that way for the short bird. As well, the dog picks up the long bird and should know better than to go back to the short bird and bounce off of it to go get the long bird.

NOW this is just what I "think" I'm understanding. Ftgoldens is the one to ask he knows 100% more than me!

Proofers got his steak for a job well done!
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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 05:06 PM
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That's how I would have attempted it too Shelby.
Clear out the close stuff, then try to get them to focus on the long.
Wonder what was happening on the line with the dogs that picked up LR before the MR. Were the handlers working for it or were the dogs just looking out and giving it?
So interesting.
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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollyk View Post
I was wondering pick up order in the 2nd too. In my hunt test training for this series would pick up outside, outside, inside. (We do train for primary selection too have that in my pocket.)
In FT's is it generally long bird first?????
Personally, I don't subscribe to the outside, outside, middle philosophy ... that'll get you in big trouble with an in-line triple, where you'd need to get the middle bird second. Generally, the order suggested by MOP (shortest, next shortest, then longest) is followed, although when you have a long flyer as the last bird down that pretty much goes out the window as well. So, it's best to teach the dog to go where sent ... PERIOD! At least mix up the order in training so the dog will be comfortable when picking up birds in a variety of orders.

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It looks like some were picking up LR next. How amazing to be able to communicate that line past the tight MR.
Don't be too impressed with that communication ... I can guarantee with 100% confidence that the handlers wanted to get that shorter mark second, but their dogs missed the short mark and kept on trucking (remember that then scent cone was on the right side of the marks in that test, so it wasn't given away by the scent if the dog was missing the mark to the left side).

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