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Old 12-20-2012, 07:16 PM
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-How do you train for them?
Pretty much the way that you have explained in your materials. Poison birds must be trained in a logical fashion, otherwise the dog will be confused as to what you are asking it to do. It's a step by step process. Once the dog indicates an understanding of the concept, it's important to let it get the mark after it has picked the blind ... unless he showed too much interest in the mark while running the blind.

-Why use them?
From a judging point of view, it's a test of control ... which is what a blind is about. From a participant's point of view, you must have this degree of control to win field trials. Although there are some judges that abhor poison bird blinds, they are in the minority. (Frankly, I believe that the reason some of the judges hate poison birds is because they have or have had a dog that couldn't be pulled off of one.)

-How frequently? in training, in tests/trials
In training: With my first truly competitive dog, for a time we trained on PB blinds about once a week, sometimes twice. During that time, our dogs were exceedingly proficient in running these blinds ... they understood that if they ignored the mark while running the blind, they would eventually get the mark. The dogs understood it so well that they would run an under-the-arc blind without a whistle ... that's a thing of beauty. When they get too cocky, you can run double blinds, then pick up the mark ... that is a real killer at first, especially if the second blind is in front of the gunner and tight to the mark. We only do that with advanced dogs.
In trials: In Opens and Ams, PB blinds show up about every other weekend in my FT circuit.

-What are the judges looking for? in tests/trials
Control. And, if they have the dogs eventually pick up the PB, it tests for memory, as well as courage to go into an area which was earlier off limits.

-How important a skill for a hunting dog?
Very ... they have to get the cripple that hit the water 120 yards away before picking up the dead bird lying in the decoys at 30 yards away.

-What constitutes a failure? in tests/trials
Of course, picking up the PB is a failure. Beyond that, it's up to the judges; however, a demonstration of lack of control (i.e., too many whistles/cast refusals to pull them off the bird) will send you home. Also, sending the dog on a line so far away from the PB that it is not inviting to the dog will be frowned upon (some would call this a failure to "challenge the blind," but I dislike cliches so pretend that I didn't say it).
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:58 AM
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What concept (PB Blinds) does your dog need most frequent maintenance on?

EvanG
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:43 PM
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What concept (PB Blinds) does your dog need most frequent maintenance on?

EvanG
Does the answer to this question depend on the dog?
Mine hasn't done any true poison blinds yet, but in class we did drills running past white bumpers to orange bumpers.

She seems to need maintenance on go where I tell you, keep going, and there is something there at the end. I guess if I had to nutshell it into one concept it would be do what I tell you, not what you think/want.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:57 PM
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Does the answer to this question depend on the dog?
Sure it does. I'm glad you asked. You should take into consideration what training the dog has had previously, and what strengths and/or weakness you see in the dog's Basics. That, and how the dog has been transitioned into poison bird blinds.
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Originally Posted by boomers_dawn View Post
Mine hasn't done any true poison blinds yet, but in class we did drills running past white bumpers to orange bumpers.
That sounds like a fine way to begin. But there is what we call "standard order' pick up; pick up the mark, then the blind. That should be very sharp before attempting any poison bird blinds; the blind is planted, a bird is thrown, and the dog must retrieve the blind before retrieving the mark. All of this hinges on good Basics.
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Originally Posted by boomers_dawn View Post
She seems to need maintenance on go where I tell you, keep going, and there is something there at the end. I guess if I had to nutshell it into one concept it would be do what I tell you, not what you think/want.
How did you train to this point? Are you following a certain program?

EvanG
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanG View Post
But there is what we call "standard order' pick up; pick up the mark, then the blind. That should be very sharp before attempting any poison bird blinds; the blind is planted, a bird is thrown, and the dog must retrieve the blind before retrieving the mark. All of this hinges on good Basics.How did you train to this point? Are you following a certain program?

EvanG
Thanks for taking the time to remind me Evan. I don't even need to be thinking about this now.

My program is try to do what our trainer tells me. I think his program is based on a combination of tools that work for him, including Smartworks, and tailoring to the dog.

I actually have a copy of Smartworks I bought about 8 years ago when my first training group told me to get it. I didn't read the whole thing because it didn't make sense to me. Not to fault the book, just reading isn't my learning style.

Our trainer keeps saying "it's not rocket science" but I disagree. Just like your obedience video says read the dog and adjust, I'm no good at reading the dog and don't get how they think. When we have problems, I never know what to do unless I've already had that problem and I learned from experience.

I pulled the book out last night, I think I'm up to Chaper 11 but I think going by the chart, he gave us some of the more advanced drills to do in class and homework, because we can't be doing swim-by now.
It'll be ice fishing season in a couple weeks
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomers_dawn View Post
Just like your obedience video says read the dog and adjust, I'm no good at reading the dog and don't get how they think. When we have problems, I never know what to do unless I've already had that problem and I learned from experience.
Don't be too hard on yourself. It will come in time. I was having a discussion on another board about the value of books and videos. My position is that it is the job of a good book or video to provide sound information, and to lay out a well reasoned progression. But no book, video, or even mentor can infuse you with experience. That comes with time in the field.

EvanG
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:17 AM
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We saw a lot of PB blinds in Master in Ontario last year, many in the context of a delayed triple mark--one weekend we had PB blinds in that context in the water test of both tests! I followed the system of teaching it that Evan describes, and in maintenance I have to be very careful not to overdo them. My girl loves to run blinds, so once I give her the cue to leave it to pull her off the mark, getting her to the blind is not an issue. I have more of an issue keeping the marking in balance with her, so when we do use a PB in training getting the marks is actually the point of the setup for us.
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