How good is your dog on poison bird blinds? - Page 2 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 05:46 PM
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we are busy hunting
And trying to clean up some *issues*, and coming up on the busy agility trial season (I want to get his MXP and MJP titles if possible) so we've put most of our training on hold until Spring.



CH Rosewood Little Giant, VCD2 UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP TD DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 12:15 AM
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I hope the DVD cleared that up?

EvanG
yup, I am holding off on the ear thingy.


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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-14-2012, 03:59 PM
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One of the last times I trained with my trainer we worked in this. The group was MH/FT dogs and handlers to beginners. It was fun to see the finished concept worked on then how to train on it too.

My dog is preparing for SH we are running land blinds "ok" need more work with water. We are city folk who train when and where we can our trainer is a two hour drive away.

What we did with my dog that day, was run the blinds first. They were planted in a familiar spot for all the dogs who run blinds. Then (again for my dog) threw a mark left to right mid field, I was told to send her on the left blind. So it wasn't really "poison" other than the fact she saw the mark, but was sent on the blind. I thought 'no way she will do this'. She nailed it. The upper level dogs were sent to run past the "poison" bird, but my dog was not ready for that. Trainer cautioned over training this concept. He also made sure for us newer folk we set it up right for our level of dog. I hesitate to work too much complicated stuff for fear an issue will arise "I" can't work out of. I don't have anyone near me with more experience than myself.

We worked diversion marks with both our dogs this past summer. Meaning a second mark thrown while dog is returning with a mark. Our lab never thought twice about the diversion. My golden did the switch. One correction and she got it. Now she avoids the new bird with a wide berth. She takes correction easily and literally. She is low use on the collar.

Can't wait until after the first of the year to get back out to the trainers. We bundle up and train all winter unless stupid cold. Right now he is training the handler. I need all the help I can get. My dog is ready, I am not.




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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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One of the last times I trained with my trainer we worked in this. The group was MH/FT dogs and handlers to beginners. It was fun to see the finished concept worked on then how to train on it too.
This is one of the initial questions; How did you “work on it”?
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My dog is preparing for SH we are running land blinds "ok". need more work with water. We are city folk who train when and where we can our trainer is a two hour drive away.
Ah, the value of having a solid program in your hands!
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What we did with my dog that day, was run the blinds first.
Cold blinds? Were there any special factors?
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They were planted in a familiar spot for all the dogs who run blinds.
So, they were repeat blinds of some sort?
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Then (again for my dog) threw a mark left to right mid field, I was told to send her on the left blind.
Was the mark thrown toward the line to the blind, or away from it? Just curious.
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So it wasn't really "poison" other than the fact she saw the mark, but was sent on the blind.
That sounds very much like a poison bird blind; just not a cold blind. Is that right?
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I thought 'no way she will do this'. She nailed it. The upper level dogs were sent to run past the "poison" bird, but my dog was not ready for that. Trainer cautioned over training this concept. He also made sure for us newer folk we set it up right for our level of dog. I hesitate to work too much complicated stuff for fear an issue will arise "I" can't work out of. I don't have anyone near me with more experience than myself.
Again, the advantage of having a solid program to help you understand the progression, and what to expect.
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We worked diversion marks with both our dogs this past summer. Meaning a second mark thrown while dog is returning with a mark.
This may become a very valuable discussion! That type of diversion mark is called a “Bulldog”, or “Bird-in-the-face”. But there are several other standard diversion mark concepts.
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Our lab never thought twice about the diversion. My golden did the switch. One correction and she got it. Now she avoids the new bird with a wide berth. She takes correction easily and literally. She is low use on the collar.
Yes, that sort of correction needs to be done judiciously because they can begin to simply avoid the Bulldog, and then not retrieve them when sent.
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Can't wait until after the first of the year to get back out to the trainers. We bundle up and train all winter unless stupid cold. Right now he is training the handler. I need all the help I can get. My dog is ready, I am not
By recognizing that I think it shows you have a chance to become a fine dog person. Too often newer trainers can’t wait to dive in…over the dog’s head!


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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 12:07 PM
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The "bulldog" or "bird-in-the-face" diversion must be a very common diversion in HRC, as we do a lot of those in training (my trainer runs HRC).



CH Rosewood Little Giant, VCD2 UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP TD DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, that particular concept mark is present in every HRC test. So much so that you rarely see any results obtained from it, especially in Finished.

EvanG

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that. But the really great ones make you feel that you too can become great." ~ Mark Twain
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 02:00 PM
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Most dogs are well schooled on the in your face bird. Many will sit upon presentation of the bird or in a lot of cases flare off of it.

"You own what you condone." ~ Mike Lardy
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Yep. They've kinda' used it up.

EvanG

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 03:08 PM
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The one that still blows Tito's mind, although in all fairness he's only seen it a couple of times, is an in-your-face bird thrown while he's heading OUT toward a blind, rather than coming back IN with the bird.



CH Rosewood Little Giant, VCD2 UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP TD DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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That is very tough on most dogs. What that actually is is an en route poison bird blind. As much suction as there would normally be on a standard poison bird blind, it's magnified exponentially when the dog is already running toward an unknown destination and a bird is launched in plain view. That takes real control. And it takes more control the way I train on them, which requires the handler not to blow a sit whistle until the bird's flight is complete & the bird hits the ground. Imagine how committed that dog is at that point! In the final stages of training, the PB is a shot flyer duck thrown converging with the line to the blind.

EvanG

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