A lot of people treat those terms as if they mean the same things. What do you think?

EvanG

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Having never competed but having hunted over several dogs my view would be the following...style would reference the way in which a dog covers a field, the way the dog carries himself. Momentum would reference the dogs desire and determination.

I saw this post earlier today and was hoping to see some feed back. I'm curious Evan, what are your feelings?


Pete

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I think style is one of those things that's hard to define but easy to recognize when you see it. To me, it's the general demeanor of the dog. He is happy, willing, focused, and part of the team.
Momentum is just the dog's drive to continue on. (a body in motion tends to stay in motion). A dog can have loads of momentum but no real style if he's just crashing aimlessly thru the cover heading off in the general direction he thinks he'd like to head off in.

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Very similar to yours, Pete. It's always puzzled me that so many people use the terms interchangably, even when judging. The rules provide judges with latitude to penalize dogs with poor style, up to and including elimination from a stake. But there is no mention of momentum. I think that's because a dog with poor momentum will eliminate himself.

My definitions:

Momentum - 1 – the force possessed by a moving body (Webster’s dictionary), 2 – in a retriever, a term that describes the mental force/compulsion that maintains compulsion from the dogs’ point of origin against perceived resistance - the determination that causes a dog to drive on in rough going

Style -
1 – showiness, 2 – the speed, spirit, and/or enthusiasm a dog displays in route to a retrieve

Style vs. Momentum in Retrievers - YouTube

What do you think?

EvanG

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EvanG

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I see style and momentum as very different things. A stylish dog will demostrate momentum, but momentum does not necessarilly make a dog stylish as it goes about its work.

Style is radiated by a dog in its every action. By its movement and carriage it says "I like what I'm doing and I'm damned happy to be here." A stylish dog will demonstrate momentum in accomplishing its goals.


Momentum? I think of perserverence and the qualities a dog needs to stay on task, overcoming the obstacles along the path to acheiving ones goals. Some of these qualities are inherent, other relate to training. Dogs with good momentum are better able to overcome the obstacles found along the way. Dogs will poor momentum will tend to be pushed around or drift due to the obstacles encountered. Desire, drive, courage, speed and willingness to accept training all come into play.

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Style---When the dog comes to line "chomping on the bit", every muscle tense, maybe looking like a dragster revving his engines, looking like he's ready to explode with every step, and then when the judge says "dog" and the handler releases him you see a dog that goes straight as an arrow and busting through any cover in the way.

I love it.

I think Style is the way a dog works the field does he have his nose down casting if he hunting up pheasants or chuckers, does he mark the shot if a duck has fallen and run straight to it. How does he use his ablities to get the job done with grace, speed and follow through.

Momentum that is what a dog shows when it is tough going. Does that dog do everything in his power to finish the job you sent him after. Does he have perserverance..will he contintue to hunt if he has trouble.

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I can't watch the video, will try tomorrow at work, but my guess/opinion:
Style is inherent in the dog, part of the personality - energy, attention, talent, etc
I'm not sure if some may be taught - like obedience.
Our dog skool teecher who judges said he thinks: do I want to hunt with this dog? I'm not sure if that's part of style, like a calm orderly working dog vs a nut.
Momentum can be taught - the dog goes where you say until it gets there.

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I like agree with Barb "style is one of those things that's hard to define but easy to recognize when you see it."
My girl, Winter, I think is a good working dog. However, my friend Sandy's little girl Cozy has skyhigh style. They are both running Senior right now.