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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
I seem to have missed something, but if "please cite" was in reference to the rabies challenge study killing 125 beagles, you can contact either of the study heads (Dr. Dodds or Kris) and they will tell you, after you ask them quite a few times, that this is the case and those are the numbers.
They don't broadcast that information, and I don't blame them. It would not be very popular, and they would lose a lot of support for their study.
I was careful to make no comment on whether or not I agree with sacrificing 125 dogs for the study. I merely stated a fact as relayed to me by the organizers of the study. The reason I asked them is they were seeking funding and I wanted to know how many dogs were being killed before I decided whether or not to contribute.
Why would they kill these dogs?
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:21 PM
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Why would they kill these dogs?
thats how the challenges happen... they repeatedly expose the dogs until they contract the disease.... in this case they are trying to determine how long the rabies vaccine lasts which means they will have to vaccinate the dogs... and then repeatedly expose them to rabies until they get rabies ... and then at that point they will know how long the vaccine lasts but now because the dogs have to contract rabies as part of the challenge they will have to be euthanized
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2013, 08:25 PM
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Well I hope they get the results soon


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Old 01-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by A1Malinois View Post
Why would they kill these dogs?
A challenge study is the gold standard for vaccination effectiveness. You vaccinate the dogs and then you expose them to the disease. There's also often an unvaccinated control group in order to create a number for the infection rate (e.g., 80% of unvaccinated dogs develop the disease after being exposed; 20% of vaccinated dogs develop it after being exposed; you need that first number).

With rabies, that means killing every dog that develops the disease after exposure, both any dog in a control group and any dog whose vaccine eventually wears off. If the purpose of the study is to determine the length of effectiveness of the rabies vaccine, they'll keep challenging the dogs at preset periods until they all eventually get it. Only if the vaccine is 100% effective until the dog's death by natural causes will any dog in the study not catch rabies and be euthanized.

With something like Lyme, the dog might survive, but rabies is fatal.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Shalva View Post
thats how the challenges happen... they repeatedly expose the dogs until they contract the disease.... in this case they are trying to determine how long the rabies vaccine lasts which means they will have to vaccinate the dogs... and then repeatedly expose them to rabies until they get rabies ... and then at that point they will know how long the vaccine lasts but now because the dogs have to contract rabies as part of the challenge they will have to be euthanized
So essentially the lives of (I am reading 80 Beagles online) are being sacrificed to prove 5-7 year immunity to save the lives of thousands of dogs/cats in the future? I own a dog whos had severe reactions in the past, thankfully I live in an area with flexible bylaws and enforcements with medical exemptions. If it means that I dont have to vaccinate (for any new dogs) every 5-7 years I would be thrilled.

They are in year 6, what were the results the vaccinated/unvaccinated Beagles that were injected with Rabies in year 5?
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:56 PM
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They are in year 5 not 6 they are raising funds for six, my assumption is they have already vaccinated the dogs and at this point they are exposing the group to the rabies virus regularly along with doing titres very regularly, and will keep going until they find the titre level that indicates immunity along with the length of time the vaccine usually lasts, I believe that If they are still going now, the dogs still haven't contracted the virus yet. They would post results until the study is complete and the results are released


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Old 01-16-2013, 10:32 PM
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They are in year 5 not 6 they are raising funds for six, my assumption is they have already vaccinated the dogs and at this point they are exposing the group to the rabies virus regularly along with doing titres very regularly, and will keep going until they find the titre level that indicates immunity along with the length of time the vaccine usually lasts, I believe that If they are still going now, the dogs still haven't contracted the virus yet. They would post results until the study is complete and the results are released


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Oh k, thats what I saw on the site so I assumed they were in year 6
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:21 PM
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Yea Im not sure but I think they just started year 5


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Old 01-17-2013, 07:49 AM
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The study, while worthwhile, will end before they can resolve whether or not the vaccination provides "lifetime" immunity. They can only show 5 year immunity. Well, maybe 6. Unless they get additional funding.
And it does not address the question of breed specific issues.
I would be the first to agree that we need more information about vaccination duration. But there are no easy ways to get that information.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:49 PM
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Connections between serious health issues and vaccination?

They are going for 7 years and considering the amount they have already raised for year 6 i think they should get it by their January deadline, plus, they should be able to get the typical titre level to show immunity do they may be able to push for a titre option so maybe every 6 months after you pass the 5 year mark you need to titre for rabies that would be good.


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