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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:49 PM
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That's great! Congratulations!
Who are you saying that too?? The OP? Because she according to my research and posts above doesnt deserve the congrats! She has a ways to go to make things right.
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Bridge dogs
Toby-Boxer (rescue@10) 9/17/2002-11/1/12
Charlie- Boxer (1st "child" together)2/19/02-3/18/12
Julie- golden (heart dog) 5/6/96-3/3/07
Ruby- terrier/chow mix (1st dog) 8/1/90-1/15/05
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by OnMyWay2MyDreams View Post
Who are you saying that too?? The OP? Because she according to my research and posts above doesnt deserve the congrats! She has a ways to go to make things right.
Maybe they did not read the whole thread. Just the beginning. It happens to me all the time.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:09 PM
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I know it's not my business to step in, but you all might want the person or OP to let them have a chance to talk. We can't go around assuming what they are doing with their dogs.

Yes, the person made a mistake, and I realize that they need to do a lot more than just a practioner heart clearance, but it's all a part of the learning process. I can say that sometimes people think breeding is a walk in the park. That is an understatement. Not everyone is cut out to be a breeder or even afford the clearances.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:17 PM
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A heart clearance from a cardiologist is anywhere from $40-65 in Southern California. If you are breeding and selling puppies you can afford $40-65. Hip and elbow xrays (including the submission fees to the OFA) are about $400 from one of the best radiologists on the west coast. That radiologist is conveniently located about 45 minutes from the OP, in Newport Beach. Again, if one is breeding and selling puppies they can afford $400. And eye exam is about the same price as a cardiologists examination, less at a clinic hosted by a breed club. There is no excuse to say one cannot afford clearances if someone is producing puppies. If that amount of money is going to break the bank what will the breeder do if they need an emergency c-section, vet treatment for puppies or dam, supplemental food for the pups, etc etc???

I have NO sympathy for someone who knows better not doing better. This breeder knows better and should be doing better.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:20 PM
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A heart clearance from a cardiologist is anywhere from $40-65 in Southern California. If you are breeding and selling puppies you can afford $40-65. Hip and elbow xrays (including the submission fees to the OFA) are about $400 from one of the best radiologists on the west coast. That radiologist is conveniently located about 45 minutes from the OP, in Newport Beach. Again, if one is breeding and selling puppies they can afford $400. And eye exam is about the same price as a cardiologists examination, less at a clinic hosted by a breed club. There is no excuse to say one cannot afford clearances if someone is producing puppies. If that amount of money is going to break the bank what will the breeder do if they need an emergency c-section, vet treatment for puppies or dam, supplemental food for the pups, etc etc???

I have NO sympathy for someone who knows better not doing better. This breeder knows better and should be doing better.
I totally agree and this is where I was trying to shift this thread. If this person knew they should be doing better, then I blame them. People shouldn't be breeding if they can't go to a cardiologist for a heart clearance. That's just called being lazy and not caring.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:51 PM
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She did know better after she was explained what she needed to do the next time after having bred and having a litter of pups on NO clearances. Then she did them, but didnt get theproper heart clearance, her hip results werent done before the next breeding and IMO her dog really is not of breeding quality, just look at her pedigree! Plus, she never took the advice on actually doing a venue with her dog.. Obedience, agility, fieldwork..something, instead she just had more pups!

Again, frustrating for someone like me who is trying to do it right, not cut corners and still having that feeling like I should be doing even more! Yet she is ..well you get my point.
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Alison and 3 Furry & 2 non furry kids
Sogni D'oro Goldens
Sogni Doro Where Dreams Come True "Daisy" DOB 2/18/14
Goldridge Lights Action "Lilly" CD RN CCA DOB 1/28/11
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=433352
Sanford- JRT DOB-9/5/06

Bridge dogs
Toby-Boxer (rescue@10) 9/17/2002-11/1/12
Charlie- Boxer (1st "child" together)2/19/02-3/18/12
Julie- golden (heart dog) 5/6/96-3/3/07
Ruby- terrier/chow mix (1st dog) 8/1/90-1/15/05
Rusty-shih tzu (million dollar dog) 2/5/99-1/20/04
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:29 AM
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Sorry - I just cannot fathom reasons to breed this close.
Most of the Repro Vets I know now recommend back to back breedings, then rest for a cycle.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by OnMyWay2MyDreams View Post
She did know better after she was explained what she needed to do the next time after having bred and having a litter of pups on NO clearances. Then she did them, but didnt get theproper heart clearance, her hip results werent done before the next breeding and IMO her dog really is not of breeding quality, just look at her pedigree! Plus, she never took the advice on actually doing a venue with her dog.. Obedience, agility, fieldwork..something, instead she just had more pups!

Again, frustrating for someone like me who is trying to do it right, not cut corners and still having that feeling like I should be doing even more! Yet she is ..well you get my point.

How many decades of breeding experience do you have? I've only been at it for, well, a long time, and I'm not THAT critical. (And I'm usually pretty grumpy.)

I will give her a little credit for the effort put forth in getting the clearances done. That's a big step in the right direction for a novice. She could use some help in choosing a better sire for her female but rookies sometimes make mistakes while they learn in the school of hard knocks.

I spent a couple of hours looking through her girls pedigree and saw quite a few worthy dogs a number of which I had met over the years. Yeah, they're back there a ways but they were not crappy dogs. There were Dual Champions, Bench Champions, Field Champions, Hall of Fame dogs and the ONLY National Field Champion Golden Retriever that ever was, NFC Ready Always of Marion Hill.

The breeding gene pool for the Golden Retriever isn't all that big, and genetic diversity is a serious concern for this breed as well as many purebred dog breeds. We do need healthy dogs of differing pedigree to outcross with on occasion to keep this breed healthy and viable. The direct offspring from such outcrosses probably won't win any championships, but they are needed none the less for the long term viability of the breed. If you're looking at championship pedigrees today, try to find one without a ton of Cummings Gold Rush Charlie or Holway Barty in it. This is one that has very little Barty, no Charlie, and having a number of historically significant kennels represented.

It's better to check the dishwater for any gems lost before tossing it out completely. Once in a while you find something that could have value.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:40 AM
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I am not the one with decades of breeding, however the others here on the forum who have done decades of breeding have spoken up. They tried to help but alas, she went part way. Its frustrating to me because I don't see how with what she has done, not done and yes Her dog itself how one can give good job just yet. When all I do hear from all the experienced breeders that at minimum all the four clearances be done (by specialists too) ideally even some of the DNA tests, the dog should be of Awesome quality with an really good pedigree, to use that dog in some sort of venue to "prove" itself..and then maybe..consider breeding. Am I correct in thinking of this?? And frankly The OP failed in some of those areas..esp when she bred with no clearances the first go around.. And if for some reason I cant count..possibly bred again without knowing her final clearances of hips and elbows for the second time.

I am trying to do it right and am not using any excuses to why I shouldn't do as much as I can to better the breed. I have researched, listened and am now working my way to all this and at the end of the day I hope and pray I am doing it right. Not for the sake of pleasing other people, but because I don't want to hurt this breed in the long run. I just feel like if we allow others to cut corners and be OK with that because they are "trying" we will have issues popping up.
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Alison and 3 Furry & 2 non furry kids
Sogni D'oro Goldens
Sogni Doro Where Dreams Come True "Daisy" DOB 2/18/14
Goldridge Lights Action "Lilly" CD RN CCA DOB 1/28/11
http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=433352
Sanford- JRT DOB-9/5/06

Bridge dogs
Toby-Boxer (rescue@10) 9/17/2002-11/1/12
Charlie- Boxer (1st "child" together)2/19/02-3/18/12
Julie- golden (heart dog) 5/6/96-3/3/07
Ruby- terrier/chow mix (1st dog) 8/1/90-1/15/05
Rusty-shih tzu (million dollar dog) 2/5/99-1/20/04
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:34 AM
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Unfortunately, there are A LOT of breeders, that are non-reputable and do clearances, but breed dogs that look like dogs are backyard-bred. This is where our breed is and then we have those who just stick two dogs together, because it's the neighbor dog and it would be "fun" to raise a litter. The other thing that gets me is that since these Field Champions are SO far back, the dogs in the 4-5 year generations have NOT been proven.

Yes, this person did clearances, but breeding means a bit more than that.

To me, a well-balanced Golden has titles on both ends; which I fear in our breed is a long-lost art.
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