Junior vs puppy conformation - Page 2 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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Okay here are some thoughts...

If you are showing in juniors and regular classes that is a lot for a puppy let alone a boy. If it is a specialty, you would have juniors, regular classes and Sweepstakes until your puppy is 18 months old which is even more. Then most shows are at least 2 days and that multiplies the amount of work.

I actually witnessed a family burn out a puppy by doing this, entering every available class for a 5 day show. By the end the puppy was burnt out and never really got back her love of showing.

That takes me to the next thought. For the puppy (and ideally your son) this has to be fun. It is a real balance to find that for both of them. If you are allowed by your breeder to register him with UKC, I would look into starting there if they have some in your area. They are a much smaller organization and must UKC shows are very family and newbie friendly. Also the level of grooming is much less intimidating as UKC does not allow the use of product on the coat.

If you do need to choose I would go juniors at least until your son gets a very good foundation of ring procedures and the puppy has gotten some good ring experience.

You will be amazed at all the little things it takes to show a dog well and a good chunk is building routine and muscle memory. How your stride length should be, how to quickly and safely wind a lead into your hand, which foot to plant for your pivot on the individual work, how to set and reset the collar, and what to do about bait. These are the little things that once learned become second nature but while you are learning can be frustrating.
Keep in my that I am brand new at this but what are regular classes? I am only looking at 2 different events, one for puppy and the other for juniors. I don't think is too much since they are in different months and local to me. If it really is too much for both if them, then we could just watch the puppy show.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 08:30 AM
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Keep in my that I am brand new at this but what are regular classes? I am only looking at 2 different events, one for puppy and the other for juniors. I don't think is too much since they are in different months and local to me. If it really is too much for both if them, then we could just watch the puppy show.
Often times a show could be over a period of two to four days - a specialty could have puppy sweeps (no points but a way to show off new show puppies), a puppy class ( sometimes 2 in one day, these are where you get your points ) and a junior handling class - that would be 3 or 4 events in one day, a long day for a puppy plus all the time it needs to spend on the grooming table, now multiply that by the amount of days the show is running.

Some dogs love being shown, others don't, so for a young puppy you want to keep it as fun and stress free as possible. If these events are not on the same day, than no issues.

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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-15-2016, 09:13 AM
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Regular classes are the breed classes also know as the breed ring. This is where they will judge the puppy against other goldens, first in age specific classes for puppies like 6-under 9 months, 9-under 12 months, 12 months-under 18 month then by other groupings like American bred, or Open. In this class you son's skill will come into play but not be judged directly, it is the conformation of the dog to the standard that is judged here. These are held separately from Junior exhibitors.

In Junior exhibitior, regularly shortened to Juniors, they will judge how your son presents his dog. The puppy's training and ability to work will come in to play but not the conformation.

Speaking of the standard, in Juniors judges will ask questions and might ask a breed standard specific one. So have your son study up on the standard. https://www.grca.org/about-the-breed...reed-standard/

I agree if the events are separated by time counted in days, no worries.


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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-16-2016, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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We went to our first handling class last night. The instructor took Duke's leash and showed how the movements should look like. She made it look so easy and Duke was wonderful. Next my son tried trotting but instead it became a run. The stand also looked completely different. Now we know Duke has the ability to do it, we just have to work on my son. We have until March so I am optimistic Niko can learn this. Duke is so lovely that we are so excited to put him in the puppy show
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 09:38 AM
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The 'puppy show' you are referencing is a regular class- 6-9 puppy dog.
If he wins his class, he will go back in for Winner's Dog (so you have to stay).
If he comes in second, he must stay to go back for Reserve if the 6-9 puppy dog takes Winner's Dog.

In Juniors, he will be in Novice Junior until he has 3 wins w competition, and there is no going back in if he is second in the class. If he wins the class, he will go back in for Best Junior. He shouldn't expect to win Best class for a long time.The Seniors are very polished!

While you are at classes, I would let the teacher move Duke several times each class- so Duke 'gets' it.
And your son can practice several things- the leash is hard to manage for kids- he can tie your keys to the leash part, hold it out and practice rolling it up in his hand till he can do with without making keys clang. That's a good exercise.
He'll need a wardrobe- at least dress shirt/pants and shoes. Don't get slippery shoes. He should wear socks.
In the classes I taught for years in Chattanooga, we held a dress rehearsal on week 7 so the kids came in, had to know how to get their armband, be dressed for the part, etc.
I'm so happy for the sport to have a potential new exhibitor! If there's a show you can go and just watch, that's a great idea. And you tube has tons of Juniors clips-
PLUS you have the bonus of Christmas upcoming, and he will need a comb and a grooming table, and lots of $$$ gifts, lol!
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 11:17 PM
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One thing I have learned about handling in general, it is not as easy as it looks. I have taken many classes, and I personally just cannot do it correctly. My daughter on the other hand is a natural, she floats around the ring.

One thing you will notice is that some of the BEST handlers you will see at a show, are the older Junior Handlers. They are so polished and professional, it is unbelievable. Have him watch them to learn, and yes not get frustrated and to strive to be like them. At first my daughter was intimidated by them, but we have talked to many ringside, and every single one of them have shared with us a piece of information - whether it be where they buy their outfits, to what type of treats the like, to why they chose the breed they chose, etc.

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 11:21 PM
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Another thing, he need to learn to groom his golden - how to bathe, blow dry and trim. A Junior Handler is the one that is responsible for the grooming of their dog in the ring. If you can get into a seminar to learn grooming a golden or if your breeder can give you lessons. I have been to many and am still learning. My breeder lets my daughter practice on her retired dogs too.

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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The 'puppy show' you are referencing is a regular class- 6-9 puppy dog.
If he wins his class, he will go back in for Winner's Dog (so you have to stay).
If he comes in second, he must stay to go back for Reserve if the 6-9 puppy dog takes Winner's Dog.

In Juniors, he will be in Novice Junior until he has 3 wins w competition, and there is no going back in if he is second in the class. If he wins the class, he will go back in for Best Junior. He shouldn't expect to win Best class for a long time.The Seniors are very polished!

While you are at classes, I would let the teacher move Duke several times each class- so Duke 'gets' it.
And your son can practice several things- the leash is hard to manage for kids- he can tie your keys to the leash part, hold it out and practice rolling it up in his hand till he can do with without making keys clang. That's a good exercise.
He'll need a wardrobe- at least dress shirt/pants and shoes. Don't get slippery shoes. He should wear socks.
In the classes I taught for years in Chattanooga, we held a dress rehearsal on week 7 so the kids came in, had to know how to get their armband, be dressed for the part, etc.
I'm so happy for the sport to have a potential new exhibitor! If there's a show you can go and just watch, that's a great idea. And you tube has tons of Juniors clips-
PLUS you have the bonus of Christmas upcoming, and he will need a comb and a grooming table, and lots of $$$ gifts, lol!
Do you have any recommendations for a grooming table?
Thanks for all the advice! They had a lot of fun at class last night
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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-24-2016, 08:24 AM
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What a darling pair!! Grooming tables- you have to consider weight and ability to leave it outside at home (at least to me)- https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-dog-groo...ayBRoCz4nw_wcB lists some-

I like a fold down arm instead of a tubular one- it's less likely to be bent, and takes up much less space when you are going to the show. If you can afford a 42" one, that'd be better than a 36- but certainly a 36 is adequate.
On practice grooming- if you have a GRR near you, that you can make relationship with, that was the way my daughter learned to fix problem areas. If the topline was dipped, she learned how to cut to make it 'go away' visually on the rescue dogs in TVGRR- and her grooming of course made them much more appealing to the adopter and the rescue group loved us to come spend the day grooming. She learned ears on rescues, toplines, lack of stop fixes, you name it. And I deducted the mileage since we were donating services. Win-win!
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 12-24-2016, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Prism Goldens View Post
On practice grooming- if you have a GRR near you, that you can make relationship with, that was the way my daughter learned to fix problem areas. If the topline was dipped, she learned how to cut to make it 'go away' visually on the rescue dogs in TVGRR- and her grooming of course made them much more appealing to the adopter and the rescue group loved us to come spend the day grooming. She learned ears on rescues, toplines, lack of stop fixes, you name it. And I deducted the mileage since we were donating services. Win-win!
I think this is a fabulous idea! I am more than happy to practice on other dogs as you're only going to get better by doing. At the National in Ohio, there were several comments by spectators chastising the grooming of the goldens in the rescue parade. I was fortunate to have my pup's breeder tidy up my old guy so he looked the part, but was wishing the other owners had the same opportunity vice getting critiqued by those ringside--hope to be able to do something for the rescue's at the 2017 National.


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