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Old 02-02-2010, 03:17 PM
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Hello, I'm a desparate mummy too!! My 7 months old boy does the some things!! While we are walking, he starts to jump at me, bits his leash and starts to play tag o war, or starts to bit my pants or my sleeves and he is growling!! This is too annoying!! I don't know what to do!!

zephyr, i'm thinking of buying a harness but i don't know which one..which one do you have?? http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/non-pull-harness.php
OR
http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/halti-harness.php ??

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2010, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurleysfamily View Post
He is now 7 months old, and he is constantly going after my 7 and 11 year old daughters. I understand that he is doing this because he knows he can, but I can't have this behavior continue. We have been to puppy classes and we have had a trainer come to our house. My husband and I have tried everything- spray bottle, pennies in a can, standing like a tree and being calm, treats for good behavior, but nothing is working. Does anyone have any suggestions for us? We are willing to try anything. The last thing I want to do is give him up, but I am really starting to worry that he is going to hurt one of the kids. I know that he is just excited, and probably wants to play, but it is really hard to tell your 7 year old to be calm when she is getting bit and knocked over. We are really feeling helpless right now and are desperate for a solution. Thanks!
Oh no! That sounds even worse than Oscar; at least it is only me he goes nuts over... I have no kids to worry about I honestly have tried everything you are doing except "pennies in a can", but I feel like that would just get Oscar more worked up? I really should try it though, thank you for reminding me about that! I totally feel for your daughters... I get VERY frustrated with Oscar... it is SOOOOO hard to "stand like a statue" when he is jumping ALL over me. Have you tried spraying your hands/clothes with Bitter Apple spray (or the mint mouth spray whose name I forget, I think they don't like the taste of that either)? Oscar hates it. I also dilute some in a little spray bottle and if he is just IMPOSSIBLE to control, I will spray it in his mouth... just be reeeeally careful not to spray it in his eyes. He hates that!!!! But honestly it just deters him a bit, it's not a complete solution... he will go right back to it.

The "best" thing for me is just to stand on his leash and wait for him to stop flipping out at me, or haul him back inside (as this is an "outside" thing for Oscar) and say "sorry! no walk!" or just calmly put him in his crate. It is really hard to do that when your dog is thrashing around, but at least my neighbors are not subjected to my little lunatic.

Oh one more thing... does he get off-leash exercise every day? If Oscar goes to the dog park and runs around for 30 min-1 hour, he is honestly a different dog.... a VERY SLEEPY ONE! But a tired dog is a good dog... It's just that I can't always get him to the park every day/morning, because I don't always have a car and/or the time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by little_pony View Post
zephyr, i'm thinking of buying a harness but i don't know which one..which one do you have?? http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/non-pull-harness.php
OR
http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/halti-harness.php ??
We tried a harness exactly like the first one (the Sporn), but Oscar just chewed through the part you are supposed to cinch tight The material at that part is very soft because it goes through the little plastic clasp thing, and he was always turning around and biting at that part because of where the ring attached to the metal clasp on his leash... I think it irritated him.

We bought this harness instead, at the suggestion of someone on this forum [ http://www.walkyourdogwithlove.com ]. We got the Medium (55-110 lbs), but it is too big for Oscar right now, even though he does weigh 55lbs. It seems pretty nice though, the material is good and the construction seems sturdy... I hope he will be able to wear it soon!

So for now, instead of buying the Small since we are cheap we attach the leash to the front ring of his normal harness, which I don't know the brand, but we got it at Petsmart and it looks sort of like this one [ http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2751427 ], except that the way it sits on Oscar, that front flat ring is higher up on his chest than it looks like on that pink one. Also his is not pink It has basically a circular band for around the neck and the body (behind the front legs), connected by two straps (top and bottom). There is a ring at the top rear you are supposed to attach the leash to, but we tried attaching the leash in the front to the flat ring where the straps come together. It does work pretty well!

BUT -- maybe a big BUT -- then the clasp of his leash basically rubs against him when we are walking, which DID cause it to come undone once while we were walking!! He twisted around and it must have caught on the harness and pushed down the clasp part of the end of the leash. Gah!!! Luckily he came right back but it was scary, because of course at that moment, we happened to be walking through the WOODS right along the edge of a CLIFF, overlooking a HIGHWAY... yeah, very bad timing!

Hope you find something that works for you. And if you do find something better, let us know!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:48 AM
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I had bought a harness like this one http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3601464&lmdn=Dog+Collars%2C+Ta gs+%26amp%3B+Leashes
but my little devil from the first day he found moves to take it off..While we were walking, he wanted to stop,snif and eat something bad from the road, he stepped back and took it off..it happens twice in the first 4 walks and I decide not to wear it again..
so, i'm thinking to try a harness that the ring is in front of his chest..like this one http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/halti-harness.php
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:20 AM
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Sounds like you are all going through the "teenage" phase. You know how rebellious teens can be. This is pretty much a phase, stick to your guns, work hard, lots of exercise and you will move past this. I am dreading our teen phase with our lab pup as she is a handful at 14 weeks!

Also if your dog is wonderful for one person and not for the other I hate to be the bearer of bad news... look in the mirror. The person who the pup is listening to has "authority". The pup does not see you as an authority figure and walks all over you. I am not saying you need to be a meany, just be firm with what you do expect, but high in praise when they give it.

In my house, I am authority. DH is ambivalent. Happy or mad he sounds the same the dogs blow him off. That irritates him. My dog always look to me for direction. Dad is a play toy.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:30 AM
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1. Find an appropriate training class and professional to help you. If s/he shrugs this off, or makes you feel more distressed...find someone else.
2. In homes with kids, the dog is actively training with the kids or behind a barrier/on leash even in the house. The kids should not have a chance to be getting worried, the puppy should not have a chance to play inappropriately.
3. Use all meals for training sessions or from food toys (like the "Tug a Jug" or "Kibble Nibble"
4. Wear a treat pouch around the house and on walks, toss kibbles and treats for good behavior.
5. On walks, start to reinforce every 2-3 steps starting a ways before the normal place where your dog goes wild. You can also change your walking path for the first week to decrease the liklihood of wildness.
6. Seriously consider stopping the us of sprays, shake cans, etc.. punishment can increase frustration and aggression...and we don't want either of those to increase at this time. (Review the AVSAB position statement on punishment: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...Statements.pdf)
7. Spend more time training. Teach your dog skills that you will use (polite walking, recalls, hand targeting), and silly tricks. Learning can be a substitute for exercise when you are absolutely exhausted or when it's way too cold to go out (...below 15, two of dogs think it's too cold to walk!). Training will teach your dog appropriate ways to get attention.
8. Reinforce appropriate ways to get attention -very- heavily for 2 weeks. Wear your kibble-filled treat pouch throughout the house. Toss kibbles for chewing on toys, lying quietly, watching you, sitting.
9. Consider using a gentle leader/head halter. Properly teach your dog to wear it (...put it on for some yummy treats, then remove. Teach your dog to put his nose through the loop on his own.). About 60% of dogs you can stick them on and go...but wild puppies tend to fall in that other 40% of dogs.
10. Bring a super high value chewy on walks. A little ways before the wild spot, stick the super valueable chewy in his/her mouth and then keep walking.
11. Find an appropriate professional/article to teach your dog how to tug. A big part of tug is that the game is active and on when you are actively tugging. When you hold still...your dog should let go. This transfers over very well to letting go of the leash/you when on walks. If you have not taught your dog that the game ends when you are still... holding still on walks may not work for you until your dog has learned this game. Get someone experienced to help you here as it's all about timing.
12. Teach your dog to remain in front of you while you move backwards. Think of your dog in front of you...you move backwards...he is moving forwards to maintain position. Play with this in the house. Initially feed him a treat every step or two. Add in a lot of sits. Play this a lot in the house. Practice this on quieter times during walks. Practice in the house. Then try it -before- you approach the wild spot and through that area. Your dog will be in a different emotional state while working than when he's 'not working'. Best results really key off of starting -before- you get to that space on your walk. Many dogs are conditioned to go wild at specific locations (.... a quarter way back of our regular walking route makes Luna go wild! Every time! I love it...but if I'm walking multiple dogs....we go a different route to avoid that space!).
13. In your training session work on self control. A specific resource would be a book called "Control Unleashed." Leave it, stay in position, Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" are all very useful in helping with overall self control.
14. Practice all your "wild dog" strategies at home, at times when your dog is calm. Practice during calm parts of the walk.
15. Change your walking path. Go on more shorter walks, use other exercise methods, until you have practice/trained alternate responses. It is not good for you or your dog to continue having these types of experiences.

(I'm not sure why I numbered these..hmm.....!)
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxs Mom View Post
Also if your dog is wonderful for one person and not for the other I hate to be the bearer of bad news... look in the mirror. The person who the pup is listening to has "authority". The pup does not see you as an authority figure and walks all over you. I am not saying you need to be a meany, just be firm with what you do expect, but high in praise when they give it.

In my house, I am authority. DH is ambivalent. Happy or mad he sounds the same the dogs blow him off. That irritates him. My dog always look to me for direction. Dad is a play toy.


Very true oh it's only me he goes nuts on. But, it is also only me who does training with him every day, mainly me who did class with him... and its me who he runs to first and wants attention from. He is extremely good the vast majority of the time, INSIDE the house. I guess I have been hoping the whole NILIF perspective will eventually translate into more... listening? from Oscar... but I guess it is not that simple Obviously we need to move our good behaviors OUTSIDE, I just can't quite seem to get him there! I feel like I am "firm" (?) with him... I never "let him" continue something I don't like, and he gets lots of praise for doing the things I do like... but yes I would definitely seem to be not doing anything to change my status as an appropriate target of "the crazies"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDogs View Post
1. Find an appropriate training class and professional to help you. If s/he shrugs this off, or makes you feel more distressed...find someone else.
2. In homes with kids, the dog is actively training with the kids or behind a barrier/on leash even in the house. The kids should not have a chance to be getting worried, the puppy should not have a chance to play inappropriately.
3. Use all meals for training sessions or from food toys (like the "Tug a Jug" or "Kibble Nibble"
4. Wear a treat pouch around the house and on walks, toss kibbles and treats for good behavior.
5. On walks, start to reinforce every 2-3 steps starting a ways before the normal place where your dog goes wild. You can also change your walking path for the first week to decrease the liklihood of wildness.
6. Seriously consider stopping the us of sprays, shake cans, etc.. punishment can increase frustration and aggression...and we don't want either of those to increase at this time. (Review the AVSAB position statement on punishment: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...Statements.pdf)
7. Spend more time training. Teach your dog skills that you will use (polite walking, recalls, hand targeting), and silly tricks. Learning can be a substitute for exercise when you are absolutely exhausted or when it's way too cold to go out (...below 15, two of dogs think it's too cold to walk!). Training will teach your dog appropriate ways to get attention.
8. Reinforce appropriate ways to get attention -very- heavily for 2 weeks. Wear your kibble-filled treat pouch throughout the house. Toss kibbles for chewing on toys, lying quietly, watching you, sitting.
9. Consider using a gentle leader/head halter. Properly teach your dog to wear it (...put it on for some yummy treats, then remove. Teach your dog to put his nose through the loop on his own.). About 60% of dogs you can stick them on and go...but wild puppies tend to fall in that other 40% of dogs.
10. Bring a super high value chewy on walks. A little ways before the wild spot, stick the super valueable chewy in his/her mouth and then keep walking.
11. Find an appropriate professional/article to teach your dog how to tug. A big part of tug is that the game is active and on when you are actively tugging. When you hold still...your dog should let go. This transfers over very well to letting go of the leash/you when on walks. If you have not taught your dog that the game ends when you are still... holding still on walks may not work for you until your dog has learned this game. Get someone experienced to help you here as it's all about timing.
12. Teach your dog to remain in front of you while you move backwards. Think of your dog in front of you...you move backwards...he is moving forwards to maintain position. Play with this in the house. Initially feed him a treat every step or two. Add in a lot of sits. Play this a lot in the house. Practice this on quieter times during walks. Practice in the house. Then try it -before- you approach the wild spot and through that area. Your dog will be in a different emotional state while working than when he's 'not working'. Best results really key off of starting -before- you get to that space on your walk. Many dogs are conditioned to go wild at specific locations (.... a quarter way back of our regular walking route makes Luna go wild! Every time! I love it...but if I'm walking multiple dogs....we go a different route to avoid that space!).
13. In your training session work on self control. A specific resource would be a book called "Control Unleashed." Leave it, stay in position, Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" are all very useful in helping with overall self control.
14. Practice all your "wild dog" strategies at home, at times when your dog is calm. Practice during calm parts of the walk.
15. Change your walking path. Go on more shorter walks, use other exercise methods, until you have practice/trained alternate responses. It is not good for you or your dog to continue having these types of experiences.

(I'm not sure why I numbered these..hmm.....!)


I like lists!!

I guess the real problem, for me, is that I'm just not sure how to translate his really really good INSIDE behavior to the outside world. He is SO good inside... he knows sit, down, take a bow, stand, touch (hand-target), paw, high five, wave, back up, catch, sit-stay, down-stay... and leave-it and drop-it. All with me... I mean, I taught him, and we train every day. We don't train with his meals because he gets raw, but when we put his food bowl down he will wait in silence and stare at us until we give him the "all set!"... THAT was progress for the dog who used to bark and bark at the food bowl warming on the counter LOL We even do "heeling"/"walk nice" where he walks on my left and watches me the whole time. At this point that doesn't even seem possible outside... I'm sure it IS, I just don't seem to be doing it right. The combination of things to sniff/eat and me to jump on obviously make him so excited/happy that is extremely difficult to get his attention. We ARE starting to make progress on "sit" when he sees someone or another dog, which is really important to me as well... so at least that is good.

We haven't tried using a chewy toy to hold during walks, because he just wants to sit down and shred those... but we have giving him a stick to hold on to while we walk, even for potty trips. It seems to keep him focused on holding the stick and not on jumping on me or eating anything off of the ground! (Yay) I will also look into the (1) appropriate tug and (2) walk-backwards "games"... Oscar definitely doesn't "drop it" if you stop moving the toy... just makes more crazy noises and thrashes around. But he really loves tug so that would be a good if I could use that to reinforce more appropriate behavior.

I guess my overall theme is... good dog inside = crazy dog outside. I think partly it is an issue of timing and reinforcement by me... he thinks jumping all over me is a HOOT, and he's just so excited to be outside... so why would he stop??? I can appreciate that from HIS perspective, it's just really not any fun for me, especially when my arms and hands are battered in the process So I think maybe I need to do lots of little repetitions or something... get on the leash and everything and just go into the hallway, or downstairs, or a little walk... then repeat... only if he is good?

Thanks for all your advice guys, I will keep you posted... for baby steps!!
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:23 PM
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How did it work out for all of you? I am currently going through this.
What worked?


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Old 12-04-2012, 07:53 PM
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I would love to know the outcome. I didn't realize the thread was years old. I only noticed the dogs were all three years old. I thought, oh, no, are there dogs still doing this at 3 years old? There is no hope!
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:48 PM
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Yes, there are dogs doing this at two, I can attest to that.

Our last retriever, my avatar, was just like that. I took a no nonsense approach with her, basically putting her in boot camp every time she misbehaved. That meant she had to do pushups before every meal or treat. It worked, eventually.

Good Luck.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jmamom View Post
Here's Josie's behavior problem this week :
When she's outside on the leash, she will all of a sudden turn to me and start jumping at me and biting me. She goes for my hands, my coat, and then my legs as I try to hold the leash so she can't get me. I try to stand still and be boring - doesn't work at all. I've tried putting her in a down and stepping on the leash until she settles (trainer's suggestion), doesn't work and often makes her madder , plus I just don't like doing it, it just feels like there is a more positive way to teach her. I've tried redirecting her with commands and treats, sometimes works but I feel like I'm just teaching her a new way to ask for treats. Usually I end up getting her/dragging her to the house, and then giving her (and myself) some time out in her crate. (I always give her treats in the crate so she doesn't think it's a punishment.)
Any suggestions on how to get past this weeks mystifying behavior problem? Don't worry, next week I'll have a new one to solve!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
Yeah I'm totally with you there... I think Oscar really loves to grab on to me and get me to squirm around because HE HAS BIG TEETH and it HURTS

I really hate to hijack your thread but I just had a really bad time with Oscar and I'm still (mostly mentally, but also physically!) hurting and I need to vent and hear anyone's ideas because I'm at a loss here...

We went outside for a walk and when we got back into the apartment hallway, he went C-R-A-Z-Y, jumping up and doing his "demon noises" thing. He is a VERY vocal dog, and he has this play growl-snarl thing that is LOUD... he hops around and does "play bows" and makes all kinds of crazy noises trying to get me to play??? BUT THEN he is jumping up and like literally GNAWING on my wrists... I'm trying to get him to SIT, LIE DOWN, annnything but he is just not listening... and his demon noises are getting even louder. My neighbors peek their heads out of their doors "Um, are you okay?" I'm like "...oh yeah, he's just playing... he's a toddler... ha ha ha..." (FAKE SMILE FAKE SMILE) and trying to pet him with one hand while GRIMACING BECAUSE HE IS EATING MY WRIST AND HAND...
... Then I'm stepping on the leash and trying the "hands on the sides of his head, look into my eyes" thing... NOPE he's wrenched himself away and is now tearing off down the hallway back towards the elevator. Guess somebody wants to GO BACK OUTSIDE AND PLAY MOM
... So we end up wrestling all the way down the hall and we BOTH END UP INSIDE HIS CRATE... I am crying and exhausted and he is licking my face and hands because I'M PRETTY SURE HE THINKS "THIS IS A GREAT GAME MOM!!!" So we lie in there for a little while... He is like YAY MOM WE'RE SNUGGLING and I'm like OW OW OW my hand and pride are hurting, Mr. Demon Dog!!

I'm pretty sure this is a case of (1) me not knowing how best to communicate CUT IT OUT / DISTRACT him, and (2) I think he needs to go to the dog park every MORNING so he is more tired throughout the day. We usually wait until the afternoon/evening, but I'm thinking that he needs the running around in the AM. He obviously thinks the biting is a great game, but "ignoring" him is not really possible since he just continues to jump up and make increasingly loud and scary noises

Thanks for letting me vent can't find a smiley for "I am exhausted" but that's the one I would be using. And I re-read my thread and I'm laughing because I'm sure my neighbors think I am NUTS and I'm sure we were quite a spectacle today... and that my dog has me very well trained!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
Thanks -- it does help to know someone else feels my pain!

I actually haven't tried bully sticks or antlers anything he can ingest, just because he is a super chewer and he reeeally tries to swallow like everything whole Well I guess we do stuffed/frozen Kongs a lot... that really seems to distract him. We've "graduated" to the big black one ("Power chewer" or something) and I put peanut butter, treats, and water in there and freeze it. He can work on that for a while!!! He also has some nylabones that we rotate so he doesn't get too bored with all of them.

He is a super puller so walks were REALLY difficult, but we JUST started connecting his leash to the front of his harness rather than the back/top, which is how those no-pull harnesses work (it turns him sideways when he pulls) -- and OMG it actually works!! So now I can actually walk him myself... BUT I bring my little bottle of "bitter apple" that I put in my pocket, and if he starts getting nutty and jumping at me and biting, I spray it right on my sleeve or the leash where he is jumping. He hates that stuff SO he stops right away!!!
...... Okay except that one time when he jumped up at me, I try to spray my sleeve, drop the bottle in the snow and the sprayer pops off... I bend down to get it, and Oscar sees his opportunity to jump ALL OVER ME... ripping the baggie of scooped poop and dragging it around... I fall on my behind... well it just wasn't pretty but I had to laugh!!!

But the best exercise for him is still the dog park, partly because we can play fetch (we have no yard), but mostly because he can run around and play with the other dogs and tire himself out!! Any way you could drop Josie at dog day care or something, even for a few hours, so she can wear herself out with some other dogs? I feel you on that "afternoon crazies" stage... right when I am trying to get a million things done...

... OH GOTTA LOVE THOSE PUPPERS THOUGH
Let me tell you all that I know first hand and arm what you are going through and it does get better. Let me tell you of my experience as quickly as I can and you can look up some prior posts. We got Tayla at 4 months and from the day I got her home she would crinkle her nose up and snap. On walks she was horrible. She would get these spells and jump, snap and bite. For 8 months I was covered in bruises and had bloody scrapes from her teeth. One walk she attacked me so badly I had bruises on my stomach, arms and hands and on more than one occassion I came home in tears. Tayla suffers from a low tolerance to frustration and impulse control issues. We work so hard on both of these things. Instead of telling her no bite all the time I would quickly follow up with what I wanted instead, I wanted her to sit. Always have treats ready for rewards and make them comply. Over time she got better. Then almost a month ago she just stopped. One day she did, the next day she didn't. We still work on impulse control daily, I watch her for over excitment on walks and at home and make sure to nip that in the bud. But there is hope if you are consistent and use positive reinforcement ONLY!!. I tried other methods and the backfired badly on me. At a year old she is still very much an overactive puppy, but now she is one that rarely uses her teeth. I am bruise free. Good luck to all of you.
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