How to persuade my husband to agree to neuter our boy? - Page 2 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums

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Old 01-02-2013, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by roundstar View Post
I have spent lots of time and efforts to train our boy, and I was shocked when I saw the fights. I believe it's my fault if our boy doesn't behave well. I have to face the fact and keep my hardwork on dog training, instead of dreaming that neutering may be helpful.

I'm afraid I didn't pay enough attention on the socializing training in the past months. This is my first dog. He is almost perfect when he turned to 2-year old. I didn't realize it might change.

Do you have any training resource to recommend about socialization?
Thank you.

Hold on.....
TESTOSTERONE causes secondary male characteristics which includes fighting with other intact males for resources. Resources could be territory, access to females, and pack position. THIS IS NORMAL BEHAVIOR. We have watered this down so much in our domesticated animals and particular breeds especially, goldens included -- but it is still normal canine behavior, whether we like it or not. It is not a lack of socialization or training. In many breeds, goldens included, intact males that live together can live in complete harmony, but novel, outside males may make waves. It is normal.
Neutering removes the primary endogenous source of testosterone in the male animal and will help curb same-sex aggression. This is why they castrate bulls and geld stallions -- it makes them much easier to manage! Same thing happens in dogs.
Bottom line, don't beat yourself up about it, you did a perfectly fine job socializing your dog, and your dog is behaving normally for his age, species and sexual status. Neutering will most certainly eliminate or reduce the negative testosterone-based behaviors. That's the only behavior change it will bring about.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:27 AM
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But even if they geld stallions, they still will exhibit issues with other horses based on their personalities... <- My horse was gelded at 4 because he was untrainable otherwise. Neutering had a calming effect on him and he became trainable afterwards, but he still throws his weight around the field (he turf guards the food and water and has chased other boys right through fences), flirts with the girls (I will never stop teasing my barn lady about the one time she forgot who she was dealing with when she turned him loose in the mare field - he spent the day chasing girls), and will fight with certain horses. I forgot about the stalls too... my barn lady has to be careful who she puts him next to in order to prevent wall kicking and climbing. If you've ever seen a horse fight, it is a terrifying thing - especially when it's your horse and you are thinking about the vet bills... With him and some of his full blooded brothers, they simply cannot be turned out together because their attitudes don't mesh well.

My feeling as far as dogs - neutering is a good idea, but it's not the only action that needs to be done. Bumping up management and training is absolutely necessary. I can think of a LOT of neutered dogs who are loose around other dogs when they should not be. These are dogs neutered very early, etc...
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:43 AM
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If this is a new issue then I would think neutering would do nothing. My male dog is neutered and he will fight another male dog IF the other dog starts something...neutered or not. Ive owned intact males before who were not neutered and they occasionally got into a scrap (no blood was drawn and it was over in seconds) and not once did the decision to neuter cross my mind.

Some dogs do not like other dogs, and neutering will do nothing..or make things worse. Neutering takes away a vital part of the dogs system..hormones. Was this fight a true fight or was it a scrap? If fur was flying, blood was running and dogs ended up at the vet with stitches...thats a true fight. If its just a matter of two dogs going at it for a few seconds over whatever...thats not a true fight to cause concern for me. I had mine at the park a while back, he was playing with a Heeler and he got carried away with how rough he was playing. Heelers turned around and went after him, growls, barks and bites were given and it was over in seconds and they went right back to playing.

The Heeler was meerly putting him in his place. No blood, no vet trips no nothing.

I would think twice before neutering you dog over a couple fights with other males. There could of been circumstances for it, an in heat female in the area (my male will get weird with another male over an in heat female and mines neutered). The other dog could of pushed things to far, thrown off weird body language, given weird eye contact....could of been anything. I wouldnt go removing my dogs body parts over something like that before I consulted a trainer (one that does NOT say neutering will solve your problem).

Learned behavoir will not stop with neutering. My dog still will act all macho around other male dogs he meets, especially if they arent fixed. If the other dog starts something then mine will loose patients. My Rottie was not neutered and he couldnt give a flying F*** about anything...but another male dog starts a fight with him...oh boy

Last edited by A1Malinois; 01-02-2013 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:04 AM
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Max has been neutered. He is the same confident dog now that he was before the surgery. The neutering did seem to ease some tensions that had been happening at dog park involving other male dogs. He still lifts his leg sometimes, and exhibits other typical male dog behavior.

I would add that Max weighed about 90+ pounds when he had the surgery, and that his recovery was uneventful. He was subdued for about a day and we did not go back to dog park for about two weeks. He wore the cone-of-shame for two or three days.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:23 AM
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As for convincing your husband, that is a whole other issue than if you should or shouldn't, and what the desired change in the dog would be. Husbands tend to value that part of their own anatomy and can be resistent to allowing it removed from the dog. I am not sure why since the husband gets to keep his.....

I would talk to your husband about how the dog will never be used for breeding so he will always be in a state of sexual readiness without a sexual partner. It is unfair to the dog to live his whole life in this manner. That angle might get him to agree and then I would schedule the proceedure as soon as possible before he changes his mind.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:33 AM
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I had the same issue, but for me it was because my husband was dead-set on breeding. After getting some advice on here and doing some research of my own, I presented him with the facts of why I thought breeding was a bad idea and he agreed with me.

Basically, for me it was a communication issue that we talked out. Does your husband know why you want to neuter the dog? Or does he just think that you want what can be an expensive surgery for no reason other than to get it? Maybe telling him "I want our dog neutered because of (your reason here) and I think it will help with these issues because (your information here)" will help. Men like it when we explain ourselves to them I've found
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:38 PM
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Neutering made a huge positive difference in my dog Copley and his 'tude around big intact male dogs.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:36 PM
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Just because a dog happens to be an intact male and thus possesses testosterone does not give the dog a free pass to act like a jerk and behave aggressively.

I am a breeder and I own 5 intact male dogs that range in age from 13.5 to almsot 8 mos old. They do not fight with each other over anything, nor should they. We also have a number of girls so we have girls in season often. Our dogs live in the house and get along with one another. Communicating with one another is one thing but actually pushing the envelope to the point where the dog attacks another dog is quite another and it is very clear that this is not acceptable in goldens in the golden retriever standard which was written many years ago. It is not neccessary for them to fight to be able to communicate with one another.

There is another forum member who owns a dog who has behaved poorly around other intact male dogs in the past. He was around our 8 year old intact, stud dog. He did try to get a rise out of our dog but our dog was not willing to engage in the behavior.

Neutering does not fix all problems with behavior, especially aggressive behavior. There are usually other issues involved with training that also need to be addressed, as well. However, neutered dogs will stop lifting their leg and do far less posturing, etc than their unneutered counterparts.

If this has happened all of a sudden with a dog who has been stable in the past and not had issues, I would get a thyroid panel done as a low thyroid level can cause aggression issues. Also, the normal ranges that are given for the thyroid testing are for canines as a species and not for golden retrievers as a breed. Goldens tend to need to be more toward the middle of the range for their thyroid levels to be where they need to be. Example, a t4 of 1.2 and the top of the "low range" is 1.0. This is a dog who would benefit from supplementing the thyroid.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie B View Post
As for convincing your husband, that is a whole other issue than if you should or shouldn't, and what the desired change in the dog would be. Husbands tend to value that part of their own anatomy and can be resistent to allowing it removed from the dog. I am not sure why since the husband gets to keep his.....

I would talk to your husband about how the dog will never be used for breeding so he will always be in a state of sexual readiness without a sexual partner. It is unfair to the dog to live his whole life in this manner. That angle might get him to agree and then I would schedule the proceedure as soon as possible before he changes his mind.
Hmm according to this theory my Rottweiler and German Shepherd should of been very unhappy. Both those dogs were intact and neither showed any aggression, frustration or the "sex crazed maniac" syndrome people tend to make out intact dogs to be. A dog does not walk around every waking minute saying "OMG OMG OMG I MUST find something to stick my yahoo into NOW"...they just do not think like that. Sure, if an in heat female came by and they could smell her yes they may get stressed out. But to say its not fair for them to live with testicles is just silly. My males were so passive and well trained. They wouldnt fight over anything, nothing...not even over a female. My current boy is neutered and if theres an in heat female by him and another male...he will tell the other male off and if given the chance will mount and tie that female (though I would never allow that). Also, did I mention..hes neutered
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:33 AM
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Thank you for all the opinions!

There is no dog training course in our area, so I learn by myself through internet and books. I enjoyed every minute of training our boy (and myself) since day one.

He was very friendly with most of the dogs before, and would like to share food and toys with others. This new fighting issue really upset me as I had no such experience.

Thank you for your posts and I understand neutering better now. I will discuss further with my husband and think twice about neutering. No matter what our decision is, I will try to enhance the socialization training first, which shouldn't have been neglected.
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