Separated too early from mom - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
Murdock's daddy
 
Maverick James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarkston, Michigan
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 113 Times in 66 Posts
Separated too early from mom

Hopefully, those of you with many years of experience raising/breeding/training goldens can weight in.

We have had some ongoing issues with Murdock (7 months) which started almost from the day we brought him home. When he was 4 months, my wife enlisted the help of a behavioralist/trainer. The behavioralist spent about 20 hours over multiple sessions working with Murdock and at her suggestion, we kept and provided a daily diary so that she had tons of information to work with. She discussed our issues with several colleagues and they as a group feel that the issues are most likely caused because he was separated from his mother too early (was medical necessary).

If pups have been separated from their mother too early for some reason, i.e. medical, abandoned, etc., Are there some common issues that you would most likely expect to occur/encounter ?
Maverick James is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
Vinnie's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 486
Thanked 989 Times in 676 Posts
The main problem I had with Vinnie was that he had not learned bite inhibition from his litter mates. I got him at 6 weeks. He's doing much better now at 7 1/2 months.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App
Vinnie's Mom is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Tayla's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 3,504
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,641
Thanked 3,572 Times in 1,864 Posts
Bite inhibition, low tolerance for frustration and impulse control issues. Tayla was purchased by her original owner at 5 weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App

Barb, Rick, "Tayla" Ruff Start Hot On The Trail (STAR Puppy) (Born 11/11, Gotcha 3/12) and "Lily" Stargazer's Make It So, CGC (Gotcha 12/21/13)


http://pdgf.pitapata.com/ABfhm4.png

http://pdgf.pitapata.com/cZiWm5.png

Cheyenne (CGC) and Jesse (CGC) who will be always loved and never forgotten.
Tayla's Mom is offline  
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 09:42 AM
Senior Member
 
SheetsSM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,595
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 2,012
Thanked 2,570 Times in 1,239 Posts
How old was Murdock when he was separated from Mom? But he was still with his two other littermates until he was 8 weeks right? Also, was he kept away from all other adult dogs as a pup at the breeders? I'm thinking (and I'm certainly no expert) that this just may be his personality. Is the behaviorist you saw an actual accredited behaviorist?
SheetsSM is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to SheetsSM For This Useful Post:
Selli-Belle (12-02-2012)
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
Selli-Belle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 2,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Images: 9
Thanks: 2,250
Thanked 1,332 Times in 694 Posts
My understanding is that in terms of bite inhibition, being with the littermates is AS if not MORE important than being with the moms, especially after the pups are weaned.

Were the pups bottle fed from birth?

Carolyn (A.K.A. Aunt Care) and

Creekwood Tanglefoot Selchie CD, RN, AX, AXJ, CGC, CCA, (A.K.A. Selli-Belle) Golden

Valentine Byrd McDuff (A.K.A. Duffy) Golden/Sheltie

Tanglefoot Autumn Dexter CGC (My Heart Dog at the Bridge) Golden
Selli-Belle is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 12:11 PM
Kate
 
Megora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MI
Posts: 17,781
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Thanks: 8,135
Thanked 12,475 Times in 6,467 Posts
If you don't mind sharing, what exactly are these issues?

Are the other puppy owners experiencing them?

My main thought is that i should hope that these behavioralists are actually coming up with ways to help you train your pup vs just identifying causes of the behavior.

Megora is online now  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 12:53 PM
Nancy
 
Willow52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 7,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 1,488
Thanked 2,098 Times in 1,509 Posts
Could you be specific as to what your issues the behaviorist feels are related to leaving the mother early? My Hank was given to me at 5.5 weeks and his brother went to our daughter the same day, neither have odd or problems behaviors. They are now 3.5 yrs. old.

http://pdgf.pitapata.com/80BAm4.png


**Fraulein "Maggie" Louise 8/2/95 - 7/20/09**
*At Rainbow Bridge but Forever in Our Hearts*



Willow52 is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
Murdock's daddy
 
Maverick James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarkston, Michigan
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 113 Times in 66 Posts
I didn't mention the issues at first because I was curious to see if someone would mention possible issues and that they would coincide with what we have been experiencing.

In a nutshell, they are:

Biting and niping - bite inhibition
Grass riping - Out of frustration/anxiety. Lots of observation and studying his behavior went in to making that determination.
Resource Guarding - Without a common trigger, like teasing, competition, etc.

SheetsSM - Murdock was separated from his mother at about 3-1/2 weeks because of complication related to the c-section the mother had to have when the pups were born. He stayed with his two litter mates. He was around other adult goldens but they did not interact. The behaviorist is accredited.

Selli-Belle - No they were not bottle feed from birth.

Megora - Murdock's litter was just 3 males. The breeder kept one and they have had some bite inhibition issues, but have not noticed the resource guarding or frustration/anxiety issues. The one she kept does interact with her other goldens on a daily basis. She has had trouble staying in contact with the owners of the third pup, but she is going to attempt to get in touch with them to see if they are having any of the same issues.

Now that we have discovered the possible cause, the behaviorist is working on developing a plan to resolve them.


I also wanted to note that the breeder has been very open, honest and is very very concerned. It is unfortunate what happened and that it resulted in some undesireable issues, but was not anyones fault.

My belief is that a couple issues will resolve themselves over time as Murdock matures, but a couple may need to be dealt with now so that they don't become ongoing or bigger issues later.
Maverick James is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 05:40 PM
Kate
 
Megora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MI
Posts: 17,781
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Thanks: 8,135
Thanked 12,475 Times in 6,467 Posts
Quote:
Biting and niping - bite inhibition
Grass riping - Out of frustration/anxiety. Lots of observation and studying his behavior went in to making that determination.
Resource Guarding - Without a common trigger, like teasing, competition, etc.
Ok....

A thought here is that he might be a very energetic "busy" puppy.

Grass tearing - normal. Jacks is a shredder too. Not so much with grass (he grazes), but any toys he gets his mouth on when he's in one of his super-hyped-up moods inevitably gets shredded.

And our dogs graze all the time. We aren't golf-course yard people so we don't care.

Nipping-biting - normal. I'm sure you saw my comments before on what we went through with Jacks during his first year. He still is a very oral dog (he gets hyped up, he can't control his mouth). My mom would call me during the day, upset because I had brought home an aggressive puppy. One time she even had me come home from work and meet her at the vet. The vet raised an eyebrow and simply told my mom we were dealing with both a mouthy puppy and a teething puppy - who didn't have an aggressive bone in his body.

The other thing too is that when the dogs are bothered by something or want to go outside for potty, they tend to get a bit more mouthy and nippy. <- our pup right now is not nippy in the least (he was with his littermates until almost 10 weeks old), but even he will get extra fussy and mouthy when he has to go outside.

Resource guarding - that is concerning, but has various causes, including the puppies learning how to press their owners buttons to get their ways.

Make sure the trainers earn their keep to solve these problems. The fact that they worked with you for 20 hours and have not yet come up with a method to TRAIN The dog does bother me.


Last edited by Megora; 12-02-2012 at 05:46 PM.
Megora is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Megora For This Useful Post:
Selli-Belle (12-02-2012)
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Senior Member
 
jackie_hubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Images: 1
Thanks: 308
Thanked 510 Times in 353 Posts
What training plan are you on?

The professional you are working with you will be the best to give you advice but just as a reference Cosmo has higher than average issues with frustration and impulse control. In speaking with the vet behaviourist I work with this is a genetically-influenced issue and was made worse by having a very fieldy young dog in a condo with little opportunity for off-leash play. On an interesting note, my friend who is a CPDT says she is seeing 3 times the amount of frustrated/impulse control issues in Goldens in the area compared to 5 years ago.

He rips grass like most retrievers I have met.

From my understanding, he was separated from the littler at 8 weeks and from mom for a week or so before that. None of the littermates I know of are like Cosmo, but I do not know all of them.

Jacqueline

"I have just met you and I love you" - Dug (Up!)


jackie_hubert is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome