I'm going to try a few training sessions without the prong, and see how it goes. Maybe the treats will be enough. She will still wear it in class tomorrow night, though.

I'll report back on the results.

Well, here goes.....even though we had already trained earlier, I decided to do some indoor heeling on the flat collar...about 5 minutes with the leash, and 5 minutes on the light line. Because it was indoors, there were a lot of left, right, and about turns.

She did just as well, if not better, without the prong. I'll have to try it several more times for it to be conclusive. This may not have been the case a month ago, or even a few weeks ago. Her heeling has improved 100% since we started the intermediate class.

Like I said, the prong collar is more needed for pulling issues in non-training situations. That is still a work in progress. Maybe I'll use the flat collar for her walk tonight, and see how that goes.

The beauty is with clicker training, the prong is gone and I think the mice in my garage ate my light line so have never practiced with it.... My issue is that since my guys learn to heel without a leash, they prefer to heel off leash...

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Wearing a prong in obedience is similar to wearing an ecollar in field. You shouldn't have to use it often, but (if you use one) on the occasions you do you're glad it's there

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Jodie

AJ's Maiden By the Sea CDX RE (Annabel - retired)
Mud E Paws UDX OM2 RE OBHF (Conner - retired with 28 OTCH points)
Sunfire's Flying Head Over Heels UD BN RA (Flip)
And the odd one of the family - Colby Jack Teeter Smack CDX GO RA (Colby - Lhasa Apso)

Janice - I have a similar problem now I'm training a puppy. I got him started offleash first like I did with Jacks. The reason for that is I generally have my hands full or busy giving treats and guiding puppy butts or noses. But have to get him used to working on leash for class.

I have no idea if it's me being extra clumsy handling a strange leash (Bert's training leash is new) or Berts reacting to me giving off different body language because that fangled leash is getting in the way.

With Jacks it was and is the same way. He's better off leash than on. It's a gift and a curse, because of course I wanted him to be good on leash - at least while we are still doing novice trials for practice...

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I think you make a good point. It's probably more effective if they don't have it on every time you train.

I treat wearing a prong like I do using a leash for heeling. They heel enough without it to know they can still do it, but more with than without. What you want to avoid is not having it on, the dog has a problem, so you whip it out, correct the dog, then take it off. That's how the dog learns to behave the way you want only when certain equipment is on.

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Jodie

AJ's Maiden By the Sea CDX RE (Annabel - retired)
Mud E Paws UDX OM2 RE OBHF (Conner - retired with 28 OTCH points)
Sunfire's Flying Head Over Heels UD BN RA (Flip)
And the odd one of the family - Colby Jack Teeter Smack CDX GO RA (Colby - Lhasa Apso)

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense.

Just got back from a 2 mile walk with the flat collar. It was almost as if she knew I was testing her, because she did pretty good!

The prong isn't going to be put away for good, though. I'm just glad she can do this stuff without it.

Used thoughtfully by an even-tempered, level-headed, skillful person who has good timing, most tools can be fine.

However, I am so very admiring of people who can train without force.

While people make their own separate peaces about how to train dogs, I personally do not believe in using prong or e collars on my goldens.

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