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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:36 PM
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Lindsey, I haven't read all the recent comments here because I can't take it when people get on a high horse and want to preach their sermon without taking feelings into account. I had my fill of their nasty comments in your first thread. You know there are many of us on the forum that are pulling for you and especially Prince.

I have a feeling that some/most of the people that are giving you a hard time have probably never rescued a dog. Too bad for them. I have and I have watched the miracles happen when love, time, and patience are applied. It's a shame that people feel the need to beat up on someone just to feel superior. That is NOT what this forum is supposed to be about. I will apologize for them because there's no way they will do it themselves.

Please just skip over holier than thou posts. I hope you keep us updated, we really do care about Prince and I am very thankful that he has you and your brother in his corner ♥
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentleysmom View Post
Lindsey, I haven't read all the recent comments here because I can't take it when people get on a high horse and want to preach their sermon without taking feelings into account. I had my fill of their nasty comments in your first thread. You know there are many of us on the forum that are pulling for you and especially Prince.

I have a feeling that some/most of the people that are giving you a hard time have probably never rescued a dog. Too bad for them. I have and I have watched the miracles happen when love, time, and patience are applied. It's a shame that people feel the need to beat up on someone just to feel superior. That is NOT what this forum is supposed to be about. I will apologize for them because there's no way they will do it themselves.

Please just skip over holier than thou posts. I hope you keep us updated, we really do care about Prince and I am very thankful that he has you and your brother in his corner ♥
Thank you so much you have been so sweet and kind to us. We do have such high hopes and I do know God will point us in the right direction. We are strong people we can take the negative.. but over and over it does hurt our feelings regardless of what some may think. The more time I spend with Prince the more I love him.

THANK YOU for being positive during such a negative time in our lives. Every bit helps. the POSITIVE advice has been wonderful! <3
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by lindsey.kli View Post
Thank you so much you have been so sweet and kind to us. We do have such high hopes and I do know God will point us in the right direction. We are strong people we can take the negative.. but over and over it does hurt our feelings regardless of what some may think. The more time I spend with Prince the more I love him.

THANK YOU for being positive during such a negative time in our lives. Every bit helps. the POSITIVE advice has been wonderful! <3
I so agree with this.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentleysmom View Post
Lindsey, I haven't read all the recent comments here because I can't take it when people get on a high horse and want to preach their sermon without taking feelings into account. I had my fill of their nasty comments in your first thread. You know there are many of us on the forum that are pulling for you and especially Prince.

I have a feeling that some/most of the people that are giving you a hard time have probably never rescued a dog. Too bad for them. I have and I have watched the miracles happen when love, time, and patience are applied. It's a shame that people feel the need to beat up on someone just to feel superior. That is NOT what this forum is supposed to be about. I will apologize for them because there's no way they will do it themselves.

Please just skip over holier than thou posts. I hope you keep us updated, we really do care about Prince and I am very thankful that he has you and your brother in his corner ♥
Right on ,joyce, tired of the people,thinking they know it all.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:51 PM
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Ever since I began posting on this forum, I have made every effort to speak in a respectful tone to everyone, every time, no matter how I felt about their actions or their opinions. Offering a differing opinion doesn't mean someone is being rude. I am sad and frustrated that long time forum members who cared enough to actually put themselves out there and express a differing and possibly unpopular point of view were treated so dismissively and rudely in multiple threads not only by a new member who showed up here two weeks ago asking for advice but also by members who have been here long enough to know better. These expert members (for the record, I am not including myself here) donate their time and knowledge to this forum on a regular basis, not because they "need to get a life" as Lindsey suggested, but because they truly care about dogs and want to help people and they have been supporting us here at all hours of the day, year after year, and for that I am truly grateful.

I read through both this thread and the original closed thread carefully to try and figure out what the accusations of "negative" , "nasty" , "high horse" and "holier than thou" are based on. What I saw was a large group of people giving the OPs mostly total agreement and "atta boys" for their stories and actions, which appeared to be what was wanted since it reinforced their feelings that they are doing everything right and had nothing to re-think. There was positive response by a lot of people, with varying amounts of rescue experience, with kind hearts who showed compassion for the dog and everyone involved.

A smaller group of people who also showed compassion for the people as well as the dog, asked questions and raised very reasonable concerns based on their own life experiences and yes, expertise. The majority of this group who had questions and differing opinions have decades of dog experience professionally as well as training and hands on experience with rescue. Everyone who took time to respond was trying to give useful and helpful input based on their knowledge. This is is how it was met:

"While everyone's opinions are great we are looking at all aspects. We aren't idiots. I am not really looking for anyone's advice anymore. Thanks for the input...I'm am particularly done with this web site."

No one on this forum called anyone an idiot. When questions were asked as to why the family members who love Prince wouldn't be taking him in, we were told that there was no room, although they did have room for the pug, Duke, and also this red flag:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsey.kli View Post
..... my brother has a son that we can't take any chances with. ......
Anyone who wants to accuse me of being "Holier than Thou" for mentioning ethics or morals may go right ahead, but this comment from the OP pretty perfectly sums up why I'm so concerned. ...Not going to take a chance with a child in your own family, but quite willing to send this dog out into the world to live in someone else's neighborhood where it's pretty much guaranteed that during the next 10 years he will certainly end up having contact at some point with other people's kids and other unsuspecting people.

This dog's bites were not revealed in the original threads until people asked pointed questions about why rescues were turning him down, then the circumstances were minimized as though a Golden Retriever biting a child or any other person who he knows is understandable protective behavior, they made the extremely questionable decision to post this dog on Craig's List, and yet Lindsey continues to insist that they are so experienced with rescue dogs that they were qualified to screen potential homes themselves. However, this is the same source of judgement that decided having this dog out in the house with 25 people expected for a holiday family gathering was sound and safe management when one protective bite had already occurred. All suggestions for the rescue in Utah which might provide Prince with a life long home where he won't come into contact with the general public have been met with silence. The offers from forum members who might be knowledgeable and in a position to help were met with silence. It all adds up to simply confirm that my read on this situation is correct.

My beloved first dog, Wesley, was a rehome/rescue dog. I took it on trust that the original home was being honest with me and I took him in without a second thought that there could be potentially greater than average risk with his temperament. The story in these threads is the poster child for the reason that so many people are hesitant to rescue any dog. The average family can't trust that the original owner isn't trying to rehome a dog that they are well aware is potentially very dangerous simply because they either can not or will not deal with the problem.

I pray to God that no child or anyone else is ever bitten by this dog again, but I sure don't have much confidence about the outcome given the way this has been handled so far.



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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolefan View Post
Ever since I began posting on this forum, I have made every effort to speak in a respectful tone to everyone, every time, no matter how I felt about their actions or their opinions. Offering a differing opinion doesn't mean someone is being rude. I am sad and frustrated that long time forum members who cared enough to actually put themselves out there and express a differing and possibly unpopular point of view were treated so dismissively and rudely in multiple threads not only by a new member who showed up here two weeks ago asking for advice but also by members who have been here long enough to know better. These expert members (for the record, I am not including myself here) donate their time and knowledge to this forum on a regular basis, not because they "need to get a life" as Lindsey suggested, but because they truly care about dogs and want to help people and they have been supporting us here at all hours of the day, year after year, and for that I am truly grateful.

I read through both this thread and the original closed thread carefully to try and figure out what the accusations of "negative" , "nasty" , "high horse" and "holier than thou" are based on. What I saw was a large group of people giving the OPs mostly total agreement and "atta boys" for their stories and actions, which appeared to be what was wanted since it reinforced their feelings that they are doing everything right and had nothing to re-think. There was positive response by a lot of people, with varying amounts of rescue experience, with kind hearts who showed compassion for the dog and everyone involved.

A smaller group of people who also showed compassion for the people as well as the dog, asked questions and raised very reasonable concerns based on their own life experiences and yes, expertise. The majority of this group who had questions and differing opinions have decades of dog experience professionally as well as training and hands on experience with rescue. Everyone who took time to respond was trying to give useful and helpful input based on their knowledge. This is is how it was met:

"While everyone's opinions are great we are looking at all aspects. We aren't idiots. I am not really looking for anyone's advice anymore. Thanks for the input...I'm am particularly done with this web site."

No one on this forum called anyone an idiot. When questions were asked as to why the family members who love Prince wouldn't be taking him in, we were told that there was no room, although they did have room for the pug, Duke, and also this red flag:



Anyone who wants to accuse me of being "Holier than Thou" for mentioning ethics or morals may go right ahead, but this comment from the OP pretty perfectly sums up why I'm so concerned. ...Not going to take a chance with a child in your own family, but quite willing to send this dog out into the world to live in someone else's neighborhood where it's pretty much guaranteed that during the next 10 years he will certainly end up having contact at some point with other people's kids and other unsuspecting people.

This dog's bites were not revealed in the original threads until people asked pointed questions about why rescues were turning him down, then the circumstances were minimized as though a Golden Retriever biting a child or any other person who he knows is understandable protective behavior, they made the extremely questionable decision to post this dog on Craig's List, and yet Lindsey continues to insist that they are so experienced with rescue dogs that they were qualified to screen potential homes themselves. However, this is the same source of judgement that decided having this dog out in the house with 25 people expected for a holiday family gathering was sound and safe management when one protective bite had already occurred. All suggestions for the rescue in Utah which might provide Prince with a life long home where he won't come into contact with the general public have been met with silence. The offers from forum members who might be knowledgeable and in a position to help were met with silence. It all adds up to simply confirm that my read on this situation is correct.

My beloved first dog, Wesley, was a rehome/rescue dog. I took it on trust that the original home was being honest with me and I took him in without a second thought that there could be potentially greater than average risk with his temperament. The story in these threads is the poster child for the reason that so many people are hesitant to rescue any dog. The average family can't trust that the original owner isn't trying to rehome a dog that they are well aware is potentially very dangerous simply because they either can not or will not deal with the problem.

I pray to God that no child or anyone else is ever bitten by this dog again, but I sure don't have much confidence about the outcome given the way this has been handled so far.



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Oh I guess you forgot my dad died..and my mom has cancer. Thanks.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lindsey.kli View Post
Oh I guess you forgot my dad died..and my mom has cancer. Thanks.
What are you talking about? Every single person who has responded to any of your threads expressed their sadness at your loss. Every single person who responded has expressed sadness for Prince who clearly has fear aggression which most likely has genetic causes. Not one single person has blamed your mother or any other person for his issues.

What does this have to do with the facts that this dog has bitten two people, including a child and is a significant risk to bite someone again in the future?
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolefan View Post
Ever since I began posting on this forum, I have made every effort to speak in a respectful tone to everyone, every time, no matter how I felt about their actions or their opinions. Offering a differing opinion doesn't mean someone is being rude. I am sad and frustrated that long time forum members who cared enough to actually put themselves out there and express a differing and possibly unpopular point of view were treated so dismissively and rudely in multiple threads not only by a new member who showed up here two weeks ago asking for advice but also by members who have been here long enough to know better. These expert members (for the record, I am not including myself here) donate their time and knowledge to this forum on a regular basis, not because they "need to get a life" as Lindsey suggested, but because they truly care about dogs and want to help people and they have been supporting us here at all hours of the day, year after year, and for that I am truly grateful.

I read through both this thread and the original closed thread carefully to try and figure out what the accusations of "negative" , "nasty" , "high horse" and "holier than thou" are based on. What I saw was a large group of people giving the OPs mostly total agreement and "atta boys" for their stories and actions, which appeared to be what was wanted since it reinforced their feelings that they are doing everything right and had nothing to re-think. There was positive response by a lot of people, with varying amounts of rescue experience, with kind hearts who showed compassion for the dog and everyone involved.

A smaller group of people who also showed compassion for the people as well as the dog, asked questions and raised very reasonable concerns based on their own life experiences and yes, expertise. The majority of this group who had questions and differing opinions have decades of dog experience professionally as well as training and hands on experience with rescue. Everyone who took time to respond was trying to give useful and helpful input based on their knowledge. This is is how it was met:

"While everyone's opinions are great we are looking at all aspects. We aren't idiots. I am not really looking for anyone's advice anymore. Thanks for the input...I'm am particularly done with this web site."

No one on this forum called anyone an idiot. When questions were asked as to why the family members who love Prince wouldn't be taking him in, we were told that there was no room, although they did have room for the pug, Duke, and also this red flag:



Anyone who wants to accuse me of being "Holier than Thou" for mentioning ethics or morals may go right ahead, but this comment from the OP pretty perfectly sums up why I'm so concerned. ...Not going to take a chance with a child in your own family, but quite willing to send this dog out into the world to live in someone else's neighborhood where it's pretty much guaranteed that during the next 10 years he will certainly end up having contact at some point with other people's kids and other unsuspecting people.

This dog's bites were not revealed in the original threads until people asked pointed questions about why rescues were turning him down, then the circumstances were minimized as though a Golden Retriever biting a child or any other person who he knows is understandable protective behavior, they made the extremely questionable decision to post this dog on Craig's List, and yet Lindsey continues to insist that they are so experienced with rescue dogs that they were qualified to screen potential homes themselves. However, this is the same source of judgement that decided having this dog out in the house with 25 people expected for a holiday family gathering was sound and safe management when one protective bite had already occurred. All suggestions for the rescue in Utah which might provide Prince with a life long home where he won't come into contact with the general public have been met with silence. The offers from forum members who might be knowledgeable and in a position to help were met with silence. It all adds up to simply confirm that my read on this situation is correct.

My beloved first dog, Wesley, was a rehome/rescue dog. I took it on trust that the original home was being honest with me and I took him in without a second thought that there could be potentially greater than average risk with his temperament. The story in these threads is the poster child for the reason that so many people are hesitant to rescue any dog. The average family can't trust that the original owner isn't trying to rehome a dog that they are well aware is potentially very dangerous simply because they either can not or will not deal with the problem.

I pray to God that no child or anyone else is ever bitten by this dog again, but I sure don't have much confidence about the outcome given the way this has been handled so far.



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I'm actually not even taking the time to read through all of this. The fact that you have time to pick through this thread so thoroughly speaks for it self. Your "authority" as a long standing member doesn't mean much to me. My opinions are no less than yours. I don't have the need to explain every little thing on here as when it comes to homing we will OBVIOUSLY do so. Please don't concern your so much with what we are doing. I would be crazy to think that you are being polite at all in this thread. Please keep it to your self. I've asked novel enough that we no longer would like to discuss others concerns. We have heard them loud and clear. Are you hearing me?
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nolefan View Post
What are you talking about? Every single person who has responded to any of your threads expressed their sadness at your loss. Every single person who responded has expressed sadness for Prince who clearly has fear aggression which most likely has genetic causes. Not one single person has blamed your mother or any other person for his issues.

What does this have to do with the facts that this dog has bitten two people, including a child and is a significant risk to bite someone again in the future?
You stated we had other dogs...what concern is that to you?!? Our lives were much different a year ago. I've had enough.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2013, 01:49 PM
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I am closing this thread as it has gotten very out of hand very quickly. When posting, please remember the following:


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In heated discussion there is a tendency to malign the character of an opponent. Care must be taken in the wording of all statements of denigration to not single out any individual. An example is instead of saying “You are a liar” (an unacceptable accusation) nearly the same sentiment can be expressed as, “I believe you are mistaken”. Though the foregoing appears to be almost identical in the stated sentiment there is one major difference, the former attacks another’s character of honesty whereas the latter refers to a possible error having been made… this is a BIG distinction in any argument. Also refer to the larger group rather than a single individual when trying to make statements of a derogatory nature. Example: “You are a reckless breeder for not obtaining health certifications before breeding” (this being an example of an unacceptable attack on someone’s character) rather instead use “I feel all breeders who breed their dogs without obtaining health certifications prior is being reckless”. Again, the difference in meaning might seem non-existent but the earlier statement directly attacks a specific individual’s character whereas the latter is an expression of attitude toward a whole class, yet in effect making it understood that “if the shoe fits…”

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The Golden Retriever Forum relies on its members to self-monitor in terms of rudeness that is just gratuitous. It is one thing to focus passionately on a topic; it is another thing to call someone an offensive name or to be condescending. We hold golden temperaments on high, so let's see our members be friendly to one another as well, even when disagreements occur. You may respectfully attack a member’s point of view but do not attack the member personally, or be excessively rude in your responses. If a thread starts getting heated, take it to a mod, NOT PUBLIC. Those who do not follow this can be warned, suspended or banned.

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