Any experience with breeder, Don Graves "Super Goldens"? - Page 9 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #81 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
I honestly don't think Don is a bad breeder.
It's not as simple as saying this guy is "a bad breeder." The issue is that there are gaps in the health clearances that comprise part of the bare minimum for an ethical breeding that protects a dog's health and an owner's pocketbook.

He might be a super nice guy with good intentions. That's not what's at issue here. What's at issue is the breeding of risky litters and failing to set dogs up as well as possible for long, stable lives.
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post #82 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nolefan View Post
I feel very strongly that this forum has a responsibility to the people who use this site for research but never register or post a question formally. The bottom line is we should never, ever appear to relax our standards regarding breeders, breeding practices and the GRCA code of ethics. There is never any reason to be ugly or rude with our comments, but it is very important that we defend the standards and explain them every single chance we get. Someone may see only one thread on this site and that may be the only chance we ever get to educate them. We can't ever miss the opportunity.
Exactly-very well put.

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post #83 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
Thank you. I appreciate your response. And you're right.

I didn't realize the date of the post until I already posted. Someone asked if anyone had any experience with them, I just bought a puppy, so I thought I'd share.

I immediately regretted it. I'll tuck my puppy under my arms and go back to lurking.
New puppy buyers usually don't get that sort welcome. You unfortunately posted for the first time on one of these breeder threads that are like dog whistles for many competitive, but well intentioned folks.

My first post was in regards to a specific breeder, and received some great advice. The breeder I was inquiring about had far more red flags than this one. Most likely your pup will be just fine.


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post #84 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 11:14 AM
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Just to add...for many of these people, dogs are their passion. For some, it's their profession. So, some of it is understandable.

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post #85 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Nairb View Post
You unfortunately posted for the first time on one of these breeder threads that are like dog whistles for many competitive, but well intentioned folks.
I'm not sure what you are implying here. Those of us who think breeders should do all health clearances recommended by the GRCA Code of Ethics are in competition with the breeder being discussed in this thread? You could not be more wrong. It has NOTHING to do with competition or my own dogs and everything to do with unsuspecting puppy buyers who may be faced with unsound dogs with HD or ED, a puppy dropping dead from SAS or a dog requiring removal of his/her eyes from PU. All of these occurrences could be significantly reduced by doing all the clearances recommended by the GRCA Code of Ethics. And this breeder does not do them. This is not about competition, this is about doing what is RIGHT. I suggest you not infer intent behind any of my posts (or anyone's, for that matter) in the future since you seem to be way off the mark on this one.

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post #86 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 12:27 PM
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I'm not a breeder, so I don't have a dog in this fight (so to speak ). But it seems to me that the GRCA Code of Ethics is a minimum standard. Those who do not abide by it should rightly be the focus of criticism. Doing so saves people money, saves puppies' health and lives, and gives unsuspecting puppy buyers much needed information. I don't see this as an issue of competition. I see it as very concerned breed advocates trying to police their own, with no power to do anything but speak as loudly as possible.

On the other hand, occasionally that passion and vigilance wrongly condemns those who are doing things right, or who are making unrecognized efforts to do things right, or who are just learning, themselves, and want to do things right. But most of the time, folks here seem to get it right.

I've had a couple dogs from breeders who do not abide by the GRCA COE, and I have one now, in fact. The one I had, lived 14 years with zero health problems (she's the one lying down in the beach photo in my signature). She was an amazing dog. Wasn't close to show quality, but had perfect temperament, was incredibly smart, had an amazing nose, was brave as can be, and was a wonderful companion. She saved lives, and even had her picture in the paper once. She lived to 14. So, even though she came from a bad breeder, she was an excellent Golden Retriever. I have another dog from the same bad breeder, this one a rescue. She's a physical mess (she's the one covered in mud in my signature photo). Sweet as can be, but a bit fearful, only 44 lbs full grown, bad hips and elbows, horrible structure, dumb as a box of rocks, and people either don't know what breed she is or think she's a puppy. So the thing about breeders who don't abide by the COE is, it doesn't mean you absolutely will get a bad or unhealthy puppy, but the odds of doing so are dramatically higher and the number of potential problems are greatly increased.

Folks here are arguing in favor of an ethical system that minimizes the chance for problems in puppies -- problems that can cause dogs to suffer, that cost owners money and heartache, and which may not show up when the puppy is young. Folks here are trying to do a good thing for dogs and people. It's not a matter of competition. To say that is to misunderstand them and their motivations, I think. Do they sometimes go overboard? Sure, because passion necessarily knows excess. Is there sometimes an unfair pack mentality unleashed on a good person? Unfortunately, yes. But even the excesses are born of nothing but care for the breed, and to call it competition is just as unfair as the unfairness they are accused of.

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post #87 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sally's Mom View Post
It's clearly directed at me... I stand by my convictions... If I make someone feel guilty about jogging with a pup, that is not my problem...
LoL... I don't know why this struck me as funny but I laughed pretty hard after reading it.... you go Sally's Mom aka the great Neuter Noticer!!!!
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post #88 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by goldenjackpuppy View Post
I'm not sure what you are implying here. Those of us who think breeders should do all health clearances recommended by the GRCA Code of Ethics are in competition with the breeder being discussed in this thread? You could not be more wrong. It has NOTHING to do with competition or my own dogs and everything to do with unsuspecting puppy buyers who may be faced with unsound dogs with HD or ED, a puppy dropping dead from SAS or a dog requiring removal of his/her eyes from PU. All of these occurrences could be significantly reduced by doing all the clearances recommended by the GRCA Code of Ethics. And this breeder does not do them. This is not about competition, this is about doing what is RIGHT. I suggest you not infer intent behind any of my posts (or anyone's, for that matter) in the future since you seem to be way off the mark on this one.
Wow. You really missed the intent of my comment. I was simply explaining why she didn't such a warm welcome. I also mentioned that i had received good advice from some of the same people. Sorry I wasn't more clear.


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post #89 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 12:40 PM
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Well, I see the pack mentality has now identified me as its latest target.


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post #90 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 12:41 PM
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LoL... I don't know why this struck me as funny but I laughed pretty hard after reading it.... you go Sally's Mom aka the great Neuter Noticer!!!!
It would be funny if it was accurate, but it's not.


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