Any experience with breeder, Don Graves "Super Goldens"? - Page 8 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #71 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljilly28 View Post
Scrutiny against a concrete list of ethics is not "trashing".
Couldn't agree more.

I'd like to add the point that none of us are saying anything negative about anyone's dogs or puppies. We are scrutinizing the breeder and breeding practices, never your or anyones dogs.
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post #72 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 11:35 AM
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It is very difficult to get banned from this site.
Lord knows I've tried.
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post #73 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 11:36 AM
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OK one last comment. I have no interest in defending the breeder. I looked at their website, and I wouldn't get a puppy from them either. But, when someone shows up on the forum with a puppy, it's kind of a moot point. Look at all of the knowledgeable folks here who once got a puppy from a pet store or BYB. They learned, and made the best of it, but nobody here is criticizing them, nor should they.


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post #74 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljilly28 View Post
There is a difference between trashing a breeder and evaluating one. Almost every profession has evaluations both formal and informal. I taught in prep school for twenty years and both had yearly evaluation and served on the Career Review Committee. More, the students often use sites like Rate My Teacher and give Student evals at the end of every term. The same is true in most jobs/profession is that you are held accountable for best practices. Scrutiny against a concrete list of ethics is not "trashing".
Except that what occasionally occurs here is a group negative judgment based on insufficient or incomplete information, which then sometimes has to be walked back after the breeder comes in and defends herself. What goes on here is nothing at all like professional evaluations. I think the intent is good. I think the execution -- and I mean that word in both its senses -- is sometimes quite unfair.

I'm not saying that's what happened with this breeder, it's just a general comment. I've seen a few very unfair pile-ons here.
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post #75 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 12:01 PM
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I've seen a couple that ended up being inaccurate where eye or heart clearances just weren't sent into the OFA but the clearances were done, but as a general matter the forum usually gets it right, IMO. If clearances are not compliant with the GRCA COE it's easy to verify. So if a breeder doesn't screen for elbow dysplasia and doesn't have current eye exams, as was the case here, IMO the criticism is right on point. People may love their dogs from this breeder very much, I have no doubt that that do. It just doesn't mean I want this forum to appear to be endorsing this breeder who is not doing everything he can to minimize production of puppies with health issues.

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post #76 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 12:14 PM
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People may love their dogs from this breeder very much, I have no doubt that that do. It just doesn't mean I want this forum to appear to be endorsing this breeder who is not doing everything he can to minimize production of puppies with health issues.

I feel very strongly that this forum has a responsibility to the people who use this site for research but never register or post a question formally. The bottom line is we should never, ever appear to relax our standards regarding breeders, breeding practices and the GRCA code of ethics. There is never any reason to be ugly or rude with our comments, but it is very important that we defend the standards and explain them every single chance we get. Someone may see only one thread on this site and that may be the only chance we ever get to educate them. We can't ever miss the opportunity.


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post #77 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 12:49 PM
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Puppy buyers are adults who can handle reality and learn from it. I do not think the point is moot, for them or for others coming to research in the future, to get a grasp of where their dog came from. Yes, it hurts and I have been there in different ways on the forum, right in that seat of being told my puppy or my breeder fell short. It hurt in the short term, but it helped in the long term.

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post #78 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-30-2012, 12:59 PM
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I once bought a Golden puppy from a breeder, only to find out that that breeder was horrible. I felt guilty about buying from that breeder, but still loved my dog. And I resolved not to buy from those kinds of breeders again. So while learning I had bought from a bad breeder made me feel bad (about myself, for not knowing), learning still educated me and changed me, so in that way it was a positive. So the possibility of someone coming to a thread and finding that her dog came from a bad breeder is no reason not to inform people about that bad breeder.

It doesn't matter if it hurts the feelings of someone who bought a puppy from a bad breeder. Knowledge is power, and people need to know.

Last edited by DanaRuns; 12-30-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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post #79 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 07:15 AM
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Thank you. I appreciate your response. And you're right.

I didn't realize the date of the post until I already posted. Someone asked if anyone had any experience with them, I just bought a puppy, so I thought I'd share.

I immediately regretted it. I'll tuck my puppy under my arms and go back to lurking.

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Originally Posted by Nairb View Post
Here's what bugs me about this. The OP asked about this breeder nearly two years ago, and disappeared. Stacebabe bought a pup from this breeder, found this forum, and came across this very old thread. She is obviously happy with her puppy.

Why continue to trash the breeder? Who does that help at this point? The OP is long gone, and a new forum member got her puppy there. At this point, it comes off as arrogance. I doubt stacebabe feels welcome here at this point.

Just my 2 cents......
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post #80 of 98 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 07:16 AM
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I honestly don't think Don is a bad breeder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaRuns View Post
I once bought a Golden puppy from a breeder, only to find out that that breeder was horrible. I felt guilty about buying from that breeder, but still loved my dog. And I resolved not to buy from those kinds of breeders again. So while learning I had bought from a bad breeder made me feel bad (about myself, for not knowing), learning still educated me and changed me, so in that way it was a positive. So the possibility of someone coming to a thread and finding that her dog came from a bad breeder is no reason not to inform people about that bad breeder.

It doesn't matter if it hurts the feelings of someone who bought a puppy from a bad breeder. Knowledge is power, and people need to know.
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