Has anyone ever purchased a puppy from this breeder? I have searched the forums and can't find anything. I know a large social media presence does not automatically mean top quality dogs by any means, but it seems that this lady spends a lot of time with her dogs. I am from Georgia and have been disappointed to find that so many breeders who I have visited seem to have their adult dogs as breeding stock only instead of treating them as pets.
I emailed them and they gave me the clearances for the dogs even though they are not listed on the website. The lady seemed very knowledgeable as well.
It'd be helpful if you would post the registered names of the sire and dam. This breeder appears to use her own stud dogs on her girls- which typically means they aren't going to lengths to find the best stud dog for the dam of the litter, since one's own dogs are never going to be best for all the girls... and stud dogs are super easy- using a dog who truly complements a girl in ways other than just coat color (which appears to be the goal of this breeder) can be done from anywhere in the country via fresh chilled semen.
This is Aspen's OFA page- Orthopedic Foundation for Animals yes, she does have clearances though her eyes are out of date- but what you should see here is also that her sire has no hip/elbow clearance and only a cardiac- and her dam has no clearances at all. At least two of her half sibs on the sire's side likely failed elbows and at least one failed hips. She is an ICT carrier- so should not be bred to another carrier or an affected dog - or an untested dog.
They have a girl not on their site named Whsiper- she does not have clearances other than cardiac because she's not old enough to attain them- or breed. However, her sire had no clearances at all.
Their new stud dog Brix- Orthopedic Foundation for Animals is not old enough for clearances other than heart and eye- and his eyes are out of date. His dam had no clearances. And he too is an ICT carrier.
There're good breeders in GA. I know of several planned litters. They won't be white dogs, but they might be very light. And they will have a depth of clearances behind them as well as numerous titles to prove they are correct. I will pm you.
in addition to the lack of clearances, it's a pet peeve mine to see breeders attempting show stacks when it's evident that they don't know what a stack should look like to show off the dog's structure. And if you don't understand structure you can't properly assess weaknesses/strengths in the dogs being bred & thus can't seek out the best fit in a stud. It looks like they're starting to show in the International Shows which in the US are more "pay for titles" than anything noteworthy but it's a start.
Good heavens I didn't realize so much was missing/out of date, which is why I came here to ask.
And SheetSM what is stacking?
I definitely care about clearances since I'd be paying so much for a dog, but I care just as much about how the dogs are treated when they're not being bred.
Not SheetsSM but I imagine the first bad stack pic she saw was on Aspen's page, bottom right. Stacking a dog is placing his feet, tail, head all in position to show his correct structure. When people don't know structure, their take away is ' I should hold the tail out' ... and they don't understand what the correct dog looks like, so they make their dog not look like a show dog but a dog who's never been shown.
What you say about pets- I don't know any breeders who do not love their dogs if they compete with them - they have to have a working relationship to be successful in performance... if someone rotates the 10 they own in and out of the house and the kennel building, that is an ok thing- when the dog is in the house, that dog loves to go back to the kennel too when it is another's turn. It'd be hard to have 10 dogs in the house! And if one is to have a real breeding program, one has to have more than a single dog - I think maybe you visited some less ethical breeders, who do not compete and only breed. It'll be night and day for you to meet someone who works with their dogs to earn titles- even if they do have a kennel building.
Not SheetsSM but I imagine the first bad stack pic she saw was on Aspen's page, bottom right. Stacking a dog is placing his feet, tail, head all in position to show his correct structure. When people don't know structure, their take away is ' I should hold the tail out' ... and they don't understand what the correct dog looks like, so they make their dog not look like a show dog but a dog who's never been shown.
What you say about pets- I don't know any breeders who do not love their dogs if they compete with them - they have to have a working relationship to be successful in performance... if someone rotates the 10 they own in and out of the house and the kennel building, that is an ok thing- when the dog is in the house, that dog loves to go back to the kennel too when it is another's turn. It'd be hard to have 10 dogs in the house! And if one is to have a real breeding program, one has to have more than a single dog - I think maybe you visited some less ethical breeders, who do not compete and only breed. It'll be night and day for you to meet someone who works with their dogs to earn titles- even if they do have a kennel building.
I think maybe that's what I'm having a hard time with. Goldens are such people dogs and seeing them in kennels just throws me for a loop. I feel like they should be curled up inside
A follow up - I spent a little over an hour on two separate occasions speaking to Janelle after that original post. I had several questions about her dogs and their clearances and she could not have been kinder or more informative. I spoke to her about each of the clearances and also about the routine vet care her dogs receive. The only dog that did not have OFA clearances has had the penn hip done.
As I stated in my original post, I am looking for a hobby breeder whose pups are treated as pets and not just breeding stock. Clearances and the health of the dogs are extremely important to me, but the lives of the dogs when they're not being bred is just as important as well.
I believe Janelle checks both of these boxes for me as a breeder and wanted to follow up here in case anyone else might be interested in Jaroda. It was very clear that these dogs are part of her family and she treats them as such. While ideally I would find someone closer to the east coast, I will fly cross country in a heartbeat for the right dog. Looks like I'll be doing just that
MorganCW I need a little help with this breeder. I didn't see anything on the the site you linked on the original post about puppies or litters or a page listing their dogs. I saw a tab for future prospects on Brix & Whisper but both dogs were born in 2015 so not yet 2 yrs old so they could not have final clearances. What am I missing... is there a page I didn't find?
Even if there were another page, half of the dogs aren't old enough to breed or have clearances, and the others are lacking significant clearances. As you know, puddles, there is no opt out on OFA- if they are done and passed, they are there.
Exactly, I found 4 dogs on OFA with their kennel name and two are just turning 2 and none of them have good history, way too many failed clearances for my comfort. I thought I missed something... no pics of their dogs with registered names and/or numbers, no sign that they are active with their dogs other than breeding them (I don't count International), no litter plans or even puppy pics.
I am more partial to web sites that provide more answers than questions. But great sales pitch!
Brix her underage boy sired at least one of the litters but potentially all three since she never really shares who the parents are by registered name.
Whisper whelped her litter of 8 on 5/8 just 4 days before she turned 2.
Aspen who hails from the abysmal Y-rock Kennel has everything but needs an updated eye certification. So, they know how to get full certifications.
Seyla is a blind spot. She is a Ukrainian import as an older puppy/young adult. I have no idea how old she is and may have come with Ukrainian certification but they do them very young as prelims and even their finals are at 12 months which does not satisfy the US standard. It is a common practice for color only breeders to import on foreign prelims or finals and not ever do the US certifications at 2 because they don't want to know if these dogs would fail the OFA certifications.
Overall, very disappointed. Not surprised though as this is a common mode of operation for profit color breeders.
For what it is worth, Janelle is very nice. The measure of a good or great breeder is not in how nice you are.
Most people trying to get you to part with thousands of dollars are usually very nice. Even the worst (from a quality and health standpoint) commercial breeders have customers that just rave about how nice their breeder is.
Health certifications are a conerstone of being a good breeder and Janelle is failing quite badly here. She currently has 23 puppies on the ground, some or all of which are from two underage dogs with out health certifications. Whisper turned 2 and could get health certifications for hips and elbows on 5/12/17, but she whelped her 8 puppies on May 6th so Janelle just could not wait till the next time she cycled get puppies on the ground and bred her with out health certifications. Brix also has puppies on the ground. I am not sure if he the father to one or all 3 litters but he turns 2 later this week. So he sired puppies with out hip and elbow certifications.
All certifications should be verifiable as it is not hard nor expensive to have them recorded on OFA. Not saying she would but paper certificatations have been altered or forged in the past. Why not pay a nominal fee to have then independently verifiable and available to future generations of breeders, especially when asking a premium price for puppies?
Sadly some breeders favor PennHIP because they will score 4 month old puppies, then use PennHIP to bypass OFA's 24 month certificatation age to breed underage animals. As an example Brix and Whisper have already produced litters so they were bred underage and with out full certificatations. OFA is the only game in town for Elbows, so if she told you they have OFA certificatations, that was a lie. The best they can have is a preliminary report which is not a certificatation and dogs with normal prelims have been known to be Dysplasic at 24 months when certificatations can be accomplished.
I do wish she would become more involved in the sport instead of focusing on making puppies. I have on many occasions encouraged her to show her dogs including giving her information on upcoming shows. As of this time she has not once taken any of the in state opportunities to be active. She instead has focused on aquiring more dogs from Eastern Europen commercial kennels and other "color" only breeders to build a kennel where it appears she will eventually if not already breed every girl she has to a single boy she owns. That is a set up for maximum profit, not improvement.
As far as value for price based on the health certifications and level of competitive accomplishments, in Arizona, these puppies should be between $800(missing certificatations) to $1500(full certificatations). More than that would be very overpriced.
Overall her program is designed with a focus on pumping out light puppies with very little investment in the breed. So, yes if you want a very light puppy, from a nice person that likely does not have the US standard certificatations behind them for a hefty price tag, this breeder will have that. I would hazard to say you could find that in Georgia as breeding light puppies for money is a huge market right now since there is high demand soley for color.
I really wish I could say I would recommend Janelle. I do think she has potential but has fallen in with color only breeders who push each other for convenient, cute, light, high profit puppies. Breeders who encourage and support breeding underage and to the stud that is the most convenient or cheap are not where I hoped she would be. Until she sheds these profit driven decisions, I just can't say she is a good breeder. Good at raising puppies sure, nice absolutely, but not a breeder I can support.
Which, to me, says love of the breed is not a focus or one would do a better job by the breed.
There are plenty of equally bad breeders in GA. And I gave her several names w litters on the ground/coming in GA who are ethical, love their dogs, PARTNER with their dogs (which is more than just sharing space) and keep every eye exam done on time, clear everything before breeding, etc... so, to my mind, doing a FAR better job than someone who's letting the dogs stay in the house and nothing else.
It's frustrating. These fringe color breeders support each other in their drive for money but I wonder if any of them actually think about what they're doing for the sake of paying the power bill..
Exactly, I found 4 dogs on OFA with their kennel name and two are just turning 2 and none of them have good history, way too many failed clearances for my comfort. I thought I missed something... no pics of their dogs with registered names and/or numbers, no sign that they are active with their dogs other than breeding them (I don't count International), no litter plans or even puppy pics.
I am more partial to web sites that provide more answers than questions. But great sales pitch!
I'm not sure how my reply this morning could be considered a sales pitch. I have no affiliation with this breeder whatsoever and my speaking highly of her benefits me in no way.
I came here hoping to find some parents of her puppies and also hoping for some insight, per my original post. After speaking with Janelle on two separate occasions I came back to post a follow up reply. Just as anyone is entitled to an opinion, I am entitled to mine and wanted to share my experience. Thank you all for your replies.
No offense meant, I was referring to the web site. It has lots of good information even if she isn't practicing what she wrote. I was a little surprised it didn't have more info on her dogs or if she had puppies but it's a very tasteful and informative web site... thus good marketing.
3 litters (23 puppies) on the ground?! Wow and she claims to have them all in the house? That's a lot to keep up with regardless of where she has them.
MorganCW I hope you will keep looking and truly hope you find what you are searching for.
No offense meant, I was referring to the web site. It has lots of good information even if she isn't practicing what she wrote. I was a little surprised it didn't have more info on her dogs or if she had puppies but it's a very tasteful and informative web site... thus good marketing.
3 litters (23 puppies) on the ground?! Wow and she claims to have them all in the house? That's a lot to keep up with regardless of where she has them.
MorganCW I hope you will keep looking and truly hope you find a what you are searching for.
I know that a lot of what was posted is not flattering to this breeder.
If health is indeed important to you, I would keep looking as she is really missing on a lot.
Getting educated about what health certifications breeding dogs should have and when will really help you understand when health certifications are in place and when a breeder is telling you things that are covering the fact they don't have what they should from a health certification standpoint.
If the dog is in the US producing puppies, here are the standard health tests they should meet to be considered a good breeder.
I have made an infographic from that information plus some additional public information about certifications. I will also post two screenshots to show what missing and full certifications look like on OFA.
If you are okay with missing certifications and breeding underage dogs as long as the breeder is nice, I am certain you won't have to go across country to get that.
A little more information, 1800-2500 in Arizona should get you a puppy from parents with full health certifications and generations of certifications behind them. These parents would also gave competition accomplishments in the AKC.
I figured I would add this hear as Janelle used to be an acquaintance of mine on Facebook. She wrote a rather demonizing message to me before blocking. Since I know she has seen this I hope she will read this and realize I am not the devil.
Janelle,
I am sorry you are hurt. ?
I remain always a resource or a path to knowledge for those who ask. That includes you should you so choose in the future.
Just curious what lies you are referring to, if of course you feel so inclined. If I have publicly stated a falsehood I am more than happy to publicly claim it. I understand completely if you do not.
I am sorry that my personal ethics that require me to hold breeders to the national standards of the country in which they reside have caused you grief.
I really do hope you give AKC a try. Whether it is in the conformation ring or a performance venue. You really could find value there.
I will contact you no longer, though again if I can be of any help finding health clinics, opportunities to compete or anything else, I remain ever hopeful you will seek help even if it is from someone like me that you now hate.
I just can't wrap my brain around breeders such as this who are so defensive of their breeding programs but won't actually tell their puppy buyers what they really are doing. If you want to believe you're following some other standard and code of ethics for breeding which conveniently aligns itself with what is considered underaged breeding and with incomplete clearances in the US, then why not just openly say that? per the breeder's website: " In addition to our dogs having health clearances, i.e. hips, elbows, heart, and eyes," "our goal to stay true to the extraordinary lines and champion pedigrees." "Before breeding, our dogs have been tested for hip, elbow, and heart clearances. In addition, we do genetic testing for PRA 1, PRA 2 and ICT. Our dogs OFA information can be found on K9data." "Before breeding, our dogs have been tested for hip, elbow, and heart clearances. In addition, we do genetic testing for PRA 1, PRA 2 and ICT. Our dogs OFA information can be found on K9data." "All necessary care has been taken to only breed the healthiest of dogs with pedigrees that indicate good genetic backgrounds" "We also reserve the right to acquire DNA to determine that the dog or puppy is one of our lineages.*Puppy must be returned to the breeder"
Why not just fess up to what's really going on? If one is so confident in their practices then why not say what those practices really are as it's not completing OFA clearances, championship lineage is a loose term (I guess my puppy mill girl could be considered to have championship lineage). If you're not active, haven't been active in the breed, then how the heck do you know what one is really producing? Wondering if perhaps that $2500 price tag wouldn't be so easy to convince puppy buyers to swallow.
Reality- that is all it is. And the knowledge this breeder is advertising untruths, knowing in her heart she is not complying with best practices and is following the easy path (though it's not so easy on the puppy buyers who have to live with the choices the breeder made and pay for all the repair) and she and others like her have a big group to buy into (without ever actually participating) the whole AKC is bad, hates our color, etc.. nothing could be further. A judge cannot deny a lovely dog no matter the color. The problem is, most of these dogs are rejects sold from their country to our county (if they were lovely correct examples they would be kept) and then the people that buy them to start breeding programs with zip for knowledge on the breed don't further educate and they compound the problem further. Most of these animals, if in the hands of a knowledgeable breeder, would never be bred. Of course most of them would be denied in an AKC ring- they are incorrectly conformed.
So the bearer of the news loses a FB friend and the breeder being reviewed gets to have someone to be mad at- but there is not one lie in any of these posts. Not one. It is reality that the breeder being reviewed for a puppy person was found to be quite lacking and if that breeder were caring for the breed, she would stop and embrace what she could have learned here. It's not just the clearances, it is the whole animal and type- which is lacking. Anyone can keep animals in their house. That is such a NON-sales issue for most people. But telling the OP that she has clearances she does not have (assuming the OP is savvy enough to know a clearance from a prelim)? That is the lie.
one more little PS to the OP-
Good breeders of course raise puppies in their homes. I don't know a single good breeder who does not raise their puppies in their homes.
I don't know what 23 of them in the house would look like, but that's because a good breeder gives each little pup tons of time and energy- how would one even give 23 puppies individual car rides every couple days? Just cutting 23 puppies' nails would take forever. It's not a scene most good breeders would even attempt after decades of experience because you want to give all of them the best and spreading oneself so thin is not doing justice to each little life.
Just wanted to add OFA screenshots of the health certifications as they are today. It seems this breeder may be presenting her dogs as having full certifications. At this time not a single one of her dogs is on OFA with full certifications.
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