Do these clearances look good - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Do these clearances look good

Hi

I am thinking of getting a golden retriever puppy from Moasgoldens from this litter. LitterBrazin4CruzMay92017. Has anybody have experience dealing with this breeder. To my amateur eyes these clearances look ok. Can somebody more knowledgeable please care to comment on this. Here are links for pedigree

Brazin's pedigree, titles, and health clearances
CruzsPedigree

Brazin
Cruz

Any comments would be helpful

Thanks
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 09:24 PM
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No heart on Cruz.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 10:14 PM
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First thing that I noticed when looking both dogs up on K9Data... the breeder and stud owner are not the same person. That kinda explains why the girlie appears to have a more complete view of clearances on OFA than the boy.

Eyes and heart clearances are done on the spot at the eye specialist or cardiologist. This is a reason why some breeders out there don't always send the paperwork in to OFA to be posted publicly.

What you need to do is ask the breeder if she can produce a copy of the clearances. If she was concerned about getting them on her own dog, I'm sure she required the same with the stud dog. ***If you look on the website, the boy had normal eyes and normal heart (cardiologist) as of Jan this year.

SO all these clearances check out - you should be fine.

Personally speaking, I would probably pass for other reasons, but mainly looking at the history behind the girlie... you don't have elbow clearances behind her on the dam's side.

The boy has a funny thing a couple generations behind him... there's a great-grandma who obviously failed hips and was bred anyway. You look at the bigger picture, and it might have been the breeder gambling on what they felt were passing hips. <= It's far enough back for it not to be as big an issue to me as the elbows.

^^^^ These two issues, are probably not big enough for most people to walk away from a puppy. If you do have an intention of doing a lot more with a dog and it is imperative that you stacks odds as well as possible in favor of your pup getting his own clearances, it's something that would make me uncomfortable.

That said, if you look at the stud dog the breeder picked - he has elbow clearances going back. So odds are they did their best to improve on what they had? Which is decent enough. + It appears that he's a nice boy. Most people are not going to have issues getting a puppy from this litter. You should be good.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 07:37 AM
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Here's the piece that bothers me. The reason we want the cardiac/eye clearances sent to OFA is so OFA will verify the findings.
Cruz- his cardiac clearance (posted on his pedigree page on the owner's site) says (in the middle column) Echocardiogram and the box for "not performed" is checked. And, as we would expect, there is nothing marked for the echo findings. THEN- go to the next column- it is for the final determination IF an echo were performed and it says by check mark Echocardiogram -normal.
Why would the cardiologist mark a box that doesn't need to be marked nor would be appropriate to mark?
If he didn't do an echo there would be nothing marked in that box.

Just on the off chance the cardiologist had never seen an OFA form, and randomly started marking things that were not appropriate to mark, if it were me, I would ask for a correctly marked form. At some show clinics, they hand out the forms and you pay for your appt. BUT there is no checking on where you are if you never show up and you do have that form at that point. I prefer clinics where you preregister and they keep track of their forms, especially for things like heart and eyes that in themselves are clearances. The form (from the cardiologist's perspective) isn't even completely filled out as to his contact info. That alone - to me- would be reason for a phone call to the cardiologist at least to determine if he even examined this dog. Not sure where this Red Bank hospital stands on privacy so you may have to ask your vet to make that call....

Last edited by Prism Goldens; 05-17-2017 at 07:44 AM.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies. I will ask them about heart clearances
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prism Goldens View Post
Here's the piece that bothers me. The reason we want the cardiac/eye clearances sent to OFA is so OFA will verify the findings.
Cruz- his cardiac clearance (posted on his pedigree page on the owner's site) says (in the middle column) Echocardiogram and the box for "not performed" is checked. And, as we would expect, there is nothing marked for the echo findings. THEN- go to the next column- it is for the final determination IF an echo were performed and it says by check mark Echocardiogram -normal.
Why would the cardiologist mark a box that doesn't need to be marked nor would be appropriate to mark?
If he didn't do an echo there would be nothing marked in that box.

Just on the off chance the cardiologist had never seen an OFA form, and randomly started marking things that were not appropriate to mark, if it were me, I would ask for a correctly marked form. At some show clinics, they hand out the forms and you pay for your appt. BUT there is no checking on where you are if you never show up and you do have that form at that point. I prefer clinics where you preregister and they keep track of their forms, especially for things like heart and eyes that in themselves are clearances. The form (from the cardiologist's perspective) isn't even completely filled out as to his contact info. That alone - to me- would be reason for a phone call to the cardiologist at least to determine if he even examined this dog. Not sure where this Red Bank hospital stands on privacy so you may have to ask your vet to make that call....
Yikes.... I literally just looked to the far right to see if all was normal. Never occurred to me that somebody would fake something like that. o_O

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:48 AM
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Yes, unfortunately forms get altered and forged. It does happen. I have seen it personally with eye forms.

There are so many great reasons to pay the nominal fee to have OFA certify and publish the results. This is a big one. I have never actually heard what I consider a good reason not to send them in. If you are charging potentially thousands of dollars for a puppy, I would hope a breeder could spend less than $30 to send them in.


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:48 AM
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I probably wouldn't have ever considered that people could fake them either (and I am not saying this one is faked just that it is not marked correctly and absolutely it should be verified by OFA or the question is out there)...had I not on several occasions seen people faking eye clearances at the Franklin TN show.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldfinder View Post
Thanks for the replies. I will ask them about heart clearances
There is not really any answer she can give you that would without a doubt be satisfactory- unfortunately. It would cost her $15.00 to send in the cardiac and $12 if this is first eye submission, $8 thereafter. So max $27 to have both verified and input.
The cardiac form is not filled out and marked correctly. It just isn't.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prism Goldens View Post
I probably wouldn't have ever considered that people could fake them either (and I am not saying this one is faked just that it is not marked correctly and absolutely it should be verified by OFA or the question is out there)...had I not on several occasions seen people faking eye clearances at the Franklin TN show.
This makes me queasy knowing people are doing this...

All the more so since I'm friends with people who literally spent a fortune in getting full litters checked by eye specialist. Some eye vets out there don't break the pricing down when somebody brings a full litter and they charge $50 per pup (and there might be 8+ pups).

I'm friends with a few people who do not necessarily send the eyes in. Sometimes it's not important - particularly since we now have to do the eyes every single year. They are already spending $50 at the eye specialist for the clearance and if a dog is not going to be bred that year, it's just something to file away.

I've done that with my dogs. They both have been getting their eyes checked and cleared every year (normal eyes), but it's a pain mailing the forms in - especially when you have to follow up with OFA when they mess up. >.< This year, for example, they received the forms, noted that I had only paid for the one dog, did not check the date of birth on my older dog, lost my check. And never contacted me.

I called 2 weeks later and found out that they were apparently waiting for me to follow up with them. And had to take my CC info over the phone (which I hate doing!) for my younger guy to process the forms. And it then took them almost a week to process the forms after taking my CC info.

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