Help! Thoughts on clearances/pedigree for this litter? - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Help! Thoughts on clearances/pedigree for this litter?

Hi all,

I've spent a lot of time reading up on here as of late, but I am still a total novice and would really appreciate your thoughts/input on clearances/pedigree for this litter:

Bouquet Bred to Morton Litter Pedigree: Pedigree: Bouquet bred to Morton
Longevity Pedigree: Five generation pedigree: Bouquet bred to Morton

Any red flags or concerns? Feedback of any kind is appreciated!
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 06:05 AM
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Morton- there're a couple of half sibs on the sire's side w apparently non-passing hips (out of 4 assessed) and a half sib on the dam's side w an apparently non-passing elbow (out of 2).
Bouquet- eyes are out of date by more than a year.
I didn't look at the longevity pedigree because k9data's input on DOD and COD being so sporadic - it will never fail to irritate me when I see a supposed 35YO dog whose every minor accomplishment was input until death, which never was input.....
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Not being so familiar with how this all works, then, would that be a dealbreaker for you on a pup from this litter?
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 07:52 PM
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Hmm... I don't know what your goals are. It's not a pedigree that thrills me personally, but that's me and not you-
lacking eye clearances can be a problem in my opinion, but more importantly in my opinion is the 50% apparent fail on both sides of the sire's pedigree.. Today I don't remember about what the dam's pedigree holds but if you want a pet it might be fine for you. Or not. How's that for vague lol!
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 07:58 PM
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Part of the reason you don't see date of death for many of Florence's dogs is, they are mostly still alive. She's had pretty good longevity in her lines.

I know the sire, Morton. I know the sire's sire, ChestR. I know Morton's dam, Posh. From a temperament standpoint they are definitely nice easy to get along with dogs. I have a friend with a bitch out of ChestR. Higher energy than you would expect out of a show dog. Lots of personality. Very nice temperament.

I've never met the dam Bouquet or her sire/dam.

Here's the good thing about Florence's litters, she has bred some outcrosses by bringing in Euro lines. The bad thing with outcrosses, it's hard to know exactly what you will get every time. But she is taking a chance on what the pups will be like. If you look at a lot of US show litters, you'll find higher COI, with all the usual dogs in the influence. So you know what you are getting, but sometimes repeating the same thing over and over isn't such a good thing. I hope that makes sense.

If you have questions about clearances, just ask Florence.

Here's what I know about Florence and her breeding. She's been breeding for a long time. She shows extensively. She came from obedience trials and moved into breeding. She has made breeding golden retrievers her life.

Just ask her whatever questions you have.

~ Stacey with Hunter, Lucy and Riot, missing Reilly, Tiger and Pennie
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all. We are looking exclusively for a pet, but we want to do everything possible to ensure that the pup is healthy, smart, trainable, well-dispositioned, and an all around good dog. Now how vague is that? Basically it's just difficult for me to discern how picky I should be with clearances from further down the line (as opposed to with the sire/dam) - if the breeder is reputable and the parents have all clearances, should that be enough?

For example, if you had to choose, how would you decide between a pup from Florence's litter and this one?

Wynwood Golden Retrievers, Golden, Puppies, Breeders, Hastings, Michigan

Both breeders seem quite reputable based on what I've seen here.

Also, is it crazy/unusual for me to pick a pup from Montana or Michigan when I live in CA? (Litter timing is important due to some scheduling issues and these lined up well.) Can fly out to get pup and breeders are OK with that, so it shouldn't matter, right?
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 08:41 PM
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The litters you are looking at have very different pedigrees.

There is one issue for the Wynwood litter. They are breeding carrier to carrier for ichthyosis. Ask the breeding if they will be testing the pups for it before sending them to homes. I have no issues with their pedigrees.

Which brings up an issue with Florence, ask her about ichthyosis also. ChestR, Morton's sire, is a carrier. I don't see clearances for the other dogs in the pedigree for the pups. Ichthyosis pops up more often in Euro lines and US field lines.

Best thing you can do is let both breeders know what your lifestyle is like and if one of their pups is best for your lifestyle. I'm personally in the field camp, not the show camp (nothing against Florence), but I do field and obedience work with my dogs. The Wynwood litter has a heavier field and obedience breeding. Just my 2 cents.

~ Stacey with Hunter, Lucy and Riot, missing Reilly, Tiger and Pennie
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 02:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prism Goldens View Post
more importantly in my opinion is the 50% apparent fail on both sides of the sire's pedigree..
Can someone explain this one? I tried to figure it out from K9 data but can't. Is this info from the vertical pedigree? Sorry, I'm clueless.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 06:50 AM
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You need to go to the dog's individual page on OFA to see half siblings on sire/dam sides. If there is an elbow # and no hips, it's likely hips failed (but possible they did PH) and if you see a hip # and no elbow it's likely they failed elbows (PH does not do elbows so...)

And the two litters you're looking at are night and day from each other- both are very reputable breeders just different focusses. ITs not odd that you are traveling for a puppy, many people have to to get a pup when their timing is best.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 07:39 AM
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What Prism is telling you is the energy level and personalities between the two breeders is very different. Each breeder is breeding for a very different reason.

Usually dogs bred for conformation have a more mellow personality and lower energy level. Of course there are exceptions but this is a generalization. The dogs bred for hunting, agility or obedience work are going to be a much higher energy level, strong focus and will require a job of some kind or they will make you a little crazy. So like Prism was asking... it depends on what your goals are for your pup.

Are you looking for a quiet companion that will play with your kids and chase a ball, enjoy an outing at the lake or do you have a very active lifestyle and go hiking, running or plan to do an activity with your dog.

If you are not planning on devoting a great deal of time training for a specific purpose then go with a breeder that shows their dogs in confirmation.
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