Breeding english to american - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Breeding english to american

In my search for my perfect golden, I have seen a lot of people breeding 1/2 and 3/4 english. My question is; with the American and english being so different in their confirmation what are the positive and negatives in doing this? Their coat colors are amazing but I'm not purchasing for their color!
I'm not knocking this I just want to get a few opinions on this before purchasing!
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 01:36 PM
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I'd say it's the same as any outcross. Physically, you'll get a lot more variation than you'd likely see with line breeding. You have totally different genes in play and can only guess what you'll get. You'll have a lower COI, which can be a positive but doesn't usually worry me. I'd be most concerned with the individual dogs. If the breeder is breeding these styles together just to make a buck, it'll be bad. If they've put a lot of thought into the pairing and are truly striving for a healthier dog, it's for a good purpose. My nearly 4 year old golden is an English/American style outcross and has had quite a few medical issues. I attribute at least part of that to the mystery that comes with breeding such different parents. I don't believe either of his parents had chronic ear infections, allergies or had ever experienced a seizure, but I could be wrong.



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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 01:42 PM
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The answer to your question "What are the positives and negatives?" The positives are all for the breeder because she is suckering the uninformed general pet buying public into thinking there is something special about a puppy that is labeled "English" when there is not. The negatives are all for the puppies which are being produced to make large amounts of money for a breeder doing the bare minimum with her dogs and selling the puppies like livestock. The negatives are for the buyer who is being taken advantage of by these shysters.

If a breeder is making a big deal out of the dog being "1/2 English" or "3/4 English" my advice would be to run in the opposite direction. They are all Golden Retrievers and they all originated from the same foundation dogs in Scotland. If I see 3/4 English on the website I'm 4/4 certain that this is not a breeder I want a puppy from.

No reputable breeder chooses a dog to sire a litter because he's "1/2 English". A reputable breeder chooses the dog because she wants to improve her bitch's head for instance and this dog has a reputation for reproducing his beautiful head (beautiful in the eyes of the breeder) on his puppies. A reputable breeder chooses a sire for the litter because he has proven himself in the field by earning higher level hunt test titles or has also earned GRCA versatility titles and the breeder wants to strengthen those traits in her litter in an effort to produce "multi-purpose" dogs. Those are the things a good breeder mentions when discussing puppies, not what percentage English they are. A good breeder never says that her puppies are from "English American Champion Lines" - the breeder is busy competing with the dog she intends to breed, not resting on the laurels of titled dogs owned by other people 4 or 5 generations back in the pedigree.


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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 02:19 PM
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Depends on the breeder.

Keep in mind some people who are introducing English lines into what they breed - they are not outright attempting to reinvent the wheel. They are trying to get new blood into what they have - without losing what they have.

From what I've heard from some people - they really like what some English lines have to offer - but it does require a lot of care not to produce something that can't be shown.

So with these people, you don't have them trying to get "white coats" or whatever.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SueD View Post
In my search for my perfect golden, I have seen a lot of people breeding 1/2 and 3/4 english. My question is; with the American and english being so different in their confirmation what are the positive and negatives in doing this? Their coat colors are amazing but I'm not purchasing for their color!
I'm not knocking this I just want to get a few opinions on this before purchasing!
What crosses my mind always when I see these breedings being promoted- and what is typically the actual case- is that they are % Russian dogs, not English. So the whole premise is somewhat off. Very few Euro breeders in Europe will sell their best 'stuff' to the US. And we have very few breeders of this type here who do a good job of it unfortunately. For a few years it was so bad I figured there was a seminar on how to make big bucks suggesting it somewhere.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by nolefan View Post
The answer to your question "What are the positives and negatives?" The positives are all for the breeder because she is suckering the uninformed general pet buying public into thinking there is something special about a puppy that is labeled "English" when there is not. The negatives are all for the puppies which are being produced to make large amounts of money for a breeder doing the bare minimum with her dogs and selling the puppies like livestock. The negatives are for the buyer who is being taken advantage of by these shysters.

If a breeder is making a big deal out of the dog being "1/2 English" or "3/4 English" my advice would be to run in the opposite direction. They are all Golden Retrievers and they all originated from the same foundation dogs in Scotland. If I see 3/4 English on the website I'm 4/4 certain that this is not a breeder I want a puppy from.

No reputable breeder chooses a dog to sire a litter because he's "1/2 English". A reputable breeder chooses the dog because she wants to improve her bitch's head for instance and this dog has a reputation for reproducing his beautiful head (beautiful in the eyes of the breeder) on his puppies. A reputable breeder chooses a sire for the litter because he has proven himself in the field by earning higher level hunt test titles or has also earned GRCA versatility titles and the breeder wants to strengthen those traits in her litter in an effort to produce "multi-purpose" dogs. Those are the things a good breeder mentions when discussing puppies, not what percentage English they are. A good breeder never says that her puppies are from "English American Champion Lines" - the breeder is busy competing with the dog she intends to breed, not resting on the laurels of titled dogs owned by other people 4 or 5 generations back in the pedigree.
Exactly. Thanks!
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you ! I see more breeders selling on color than pedigree, disposition, conformation and quality. A buyer has to be so careful as well as the breeder! Let's of work getting a new golden!!
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SueD View Post
Thank you ! I see more breeders selling on color than pedigree, disposition, conformation and quality. A buyer has to be so careful as well as the breeder! Let's of work getting a new golden!!
Yes- its lots of work. But the reason you see less temperament, conformation and longevity for sale is that there are so many breeders who don't do it right... and that's because there are so many puppy buyers who approach buying a pup the way you'd approach buying a car or some other thing that is all the same within a type- all Mustangs for instance are the same. Dogs are living things and when puppy buyers realize they need to look past the aesthetic or cosmetic of it and look deeper, and quit supporting the 'white golden is cancer free' nonsense, then the breeders who don't approach their litters that way will be out of business. Any Golden can get cancer. Any Golden can get hip dysplasia. It's up to the buyer to support the breeder who's working hard to hit a high bar.
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