So my husband and me have been looking for our next golden over the past several months. We came across a litter up in BC. I like the sire of the litter since he goes back to Yogi who was one of my favorite goldens from the past. The puppies aren't due until Nov but we are having second thoughts about getting on the waiting list for this litter since we found out that the mother has grade 1 elbow dysplasia. Reading further on the website it seems that 3 of the mother's littermates also have grade 1 and grade 2 elbow dysplasia. The breeder claims that 2 of the littermates who don't have elbow clearances actually have "normal" elbows by CT scan. Something about this seems fishy. Why would someone breed a dog with elbow dysplasia and a family history of it? These dogs aren't really all that special, they have some low level field titles and the bitch is rather weedy looking. I think we will look else where. Has anyone come across "reputable" breeders breeding dogs with elbow dysplasia?
Have you asked the breeder about this? I would start by doing that. When I was looking for my pup, the dam of one of the litters I liked - produced by a highly respected breeder - also had an elbow problem but it was due to an injury. The breeder was more than willing to discuss it and set my mind at rest. (I ended up not getting a pup from her because the breeding didn't work out, but I was very glad I asked the question and didn't just dismiss the litter out of hand.)
In Europe and Australia the breeding philosophy on grade 1 elbows us a little different. They see them as a breedable rating. I feel like I am seeing a shift away from this but it could be that I am just finding/focusing on breeders who share my desire for normal elbows.
Some Canadian breeders share the philosophy that breeding grade 1 elbows is not an issue and I think it is likely an influence from overseas.
I have friends in Canada that I think are very caring and dedicated breeders that do this. I personally do not feel comfortable recommending the litters where they have a grade 1 elbow issue myself but they are also always honest and straightforward about it with their buyers. When they have a litter with normal elbows, I will be the first to toot their horn because they are great to work with and have very nice dogs.
It depends on your feelings about it though. Talk to the breeder, research elbow dysplasia and then make your decision.
I too would zip an email or make a call and just ask- but probably, the breeder is of the (formerly popular) opinion that elbows Gr1 are not something you'd throw out ..... I think that breeders who have this belief have obviously never seen a dog w ED and how painful it is or they'd never take any chances on perpetuation of it.
You know you're doing the right thing by looking elsewhere, but I understand your disappointment and wanting to touch base here to confirm that your instincts are correct. You can certainly take the high ground as suggested, and discuss this with the breeder, (I would love to hear your feedback on the response, if you don't mind). However, I can't begin to imagine what it would be.
(Prism is right, if you've ever known someone deal with elbow issues in their young Golden and the expense and logistical nightmare of surgery and recovery, you wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.)
"The OFA reports elbows as normal or dysplastic. While there is no subdivision classification of normal,
dysplastic elbows are graded 1 through 3, with grade 3 being the most severe. Differences between
dysplastic grades are based on the severity of degenerative joint disease present." meaning it's either normal or it's not and the risk is there as a breeding animal.
The research is there: "The percentages of progeny with elbow
dysplasia more than doubled if either parent had ED, and more than tripled if both
parents had ED, as compared to when both parents were normal. Results of selective
breeding practices indicate that elbow dysplasia should be considered in the moderate
to high heritability estimate category....."
Just throwing this in here so you can "see" what elbow dysplasia looks like - even when a dog isn't limping.
This dog was extremely lame off and on at the time this picture was taken. He started having problems around 5-8 months and had to be fully rested through 24 months and off and on through the rest of his life. He was also extremely active and high energy - while he had to spend about 2 years on limited exercise and forced rest. This meant he would be constantly moving around, barking, panting, and just overall restless in the house. Because he had a lot of exercise needs not being met - any time he got off leash, he would take off running. The adrenaline allowed him to run and play the keep away game regardless of him being very sore with bilateral elbow dysplasia. And being allowed to run meant that he suffered for it afterwards with him being unable to get from one side of the room to the other without stopping and getting the weight off his elbows.
In the picture - you can see he has no shoulder muscles and he's holding his legs very straight to keep weight off the elbows.
The boy in the picture was born before elbows were added to the list of things to check before breeding. He's a pretty big reason why I view any breeder who voluntarily breeds a dog who failed elbows as somebody who doesn't care about the dogs they are creating. And why should they? They have the ability to rehome dogs who fail elbows.
Or they do what the breeder of my dog did when other dogs in his litter failed both elbows and hips - she put them to sleep or recommended that as an option if the owners couldn't afford surgery.
Might add as well - I know of other breeders who will breed a dog with only one bad elbow. They shop the xrays around until they find somebody who will say that the elbow dysplasia was caused by an injury as opposed to be hereditary. And this gives them the ability to breed a dog who had a lot of money put into it. This would be dogs who have gotten mondo titles and/or have the pedigrees that people want. If puppies in a litter are high demand and will sell very well, it makes up for the risk in breeding dogs who have problems. It even makes up for them breeding dogs who have produced BIG problems in prior litters.
I know of somebody who breeds dogs with elbow dysplasia. She had a dog who had elbow dysplasia and her mom had elbow dysplasia and furthermore had produced puppies with SEVERE elbow dysplasia... and this person continues that kind of breeding because in other ways, the litters are very successful and title well.
I know exactly which litter you're looking at and I also noticed the elbow issues and also wondered why she was being bred. It's actually a really nice litter but I would be concerned about the elbows as well. I agree with the others that you might want to ask the breeder why she's being bred.
I do understand your fondness of Yogi as I have a Yogi grandson and may be expecting another soon.
Thank you all for the useful information. I did email the breeder and she seems very comfortable with her decision. But since there are multiple litter mates of the mother with elbow dysplasia that causes concern for me that there is probably something genetic involved. I do not want to take that sort of risk, so I will look elsewhere.
I do not know where you are located, but I do know of a yogi grandson that has some upcoming litters this fall/winter. ;-) It is around the Chicago area.
Thanks much!! I will pm you once I have posted enough to be able. My puppy search is turning onto a real eye opener. I appreciate all the good advice!
Jessi
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