Its no secret that there has been some turmoil in the past regarding breeding and breeders on this forum and lately it has seemed to have erupted into epic proportions both on the open forum as well as in PMs and emails. Forum members who were once neutral or totally non-involved or clueless are being forced to pick sides. This is slowly undoing the once helpful, welcoming community that was once the GRF. What is the solution?

After a recent incident into which I was drawn, I found myself at the point of unregistering and leaving this forum to the angry warring factions to rip apart. After a rational discussion with Joe I've decided instead of running, to stay and try to be part of the solution.

It seems there are many different ideas on what a breeder should be... what 'best practices' actually constitutes a "good breeder"? I don't believe there is a right answer to this question though it seems some members here believe they know. Is it affiliation with a breed standards organization? I could strongly argue on both ends of that issue and I have actually done so in the past. Is it health certs through organizations such as OFA like hip X-rays taken at 2-years of age? There are good arguments out there that so far these have done nothing to reduce the rate of CHD in the breed. Is breeding a dog under a year of age unsound? There are some who have seen no problem with this practice and in fact doing so has not negatively affected their breeding program in any way. As far as I can tell what we really have here boils down to differences of opinion. That's it, just OPINION! This is the unstated crux of all the in-fighting.

We have a variety of breeders on this board with differences in their ideas of what 'best practices' mean. And everyone should be entitled to their own interpretation without being harassed or hounded because they don't think like the rest. So what I would like to do is get away from our differences and instead focus more on something we can all agree on.

I maintain that one thing we can all surely agree on is that a puppy buyer should never be intentionally lied to or mislead by any breeder. We've all read sad stories on this forum about owners who were lied to by their breeder. In an effort to prevent our GRF puppy buyers from having to experience this fate I have started this thread. The concept is simple to comprehend and pure in its intent.

I would like to have links to K9-data, AKC, GRCA, OFA and alike to be provided with easy explanations on how to navigate these databases to get the proper information. This would provide an easy way for puppy buyers to evaluate any claims a breeder has made regarding his puppies. This is all based on the premise that truth is a very good thing when purchasing a puppy.

Arguments about specific breeding practices (ie. importance of AKC, hip X-rays, etc) should then be dealt with in a separate appropriately titled thread in which the merits can be discussed in a civilized and intelligent manner without pointless accusations flying about and character assassinations and innuendo.

I will now ask for the membership here to submit what they feel are appropriate links complete with detailed explanations as to how to navigate, register, etc. the linked resource website. And whenever anyone has a question about their new puppy or is planning on purchasing a puppy or is trying to evaluate a breeder for honesty, they need only be sent to this thread where they are then free to seek their own answers without the input of biased individuals (breeders or their fan-boys). Fair enough?

To keep this idea very simple and free from confusion by the masses, I will be the only one who can add a posting to it. I will only post links that a prospective puppy buyer might wish to use to verify what a breeder is telling them. No endorsements about any of these links will be posted... we will simply let the puppy buyer assume all risks.

You may now submit your links with accompanying instructions by simply PMing them to me.
Thank you for reading this and thanks to all those who would help me by participating in this project.

Added on Monomer's behalf:

New Puppy Buyer... though the links and info provided below do not necessarily guarantee anything it does provide you with a way of checking on what a breeder is telling you about their litters and dogs and even about their breeding program. If after using these databases to fact-check a potential breeder and you decide something isn't quite
adding up, I suggest first consulting with that breeder to get a better picture of where the misunderstanding lies. However if you suspect the breeder was being anything less than open and honest with you in
their representation of their dogs or litters then it is highly suggest that that breeder be avoided as most likely other misrepresentations may also arise about health guarantee and alike after the sale. In other
words, the main function for these links is as a litmus test for 'breeder honesty', beyond that you must make your own judgments of just how important the actual data is to answering other concerns you may have about health, genetics, sound structure, etc.

Please check back here often as I will continue adding more 'fact checking' links to this page.

(To the forum membership who are choosing to help in this project: I am requesting submissions for AKC titles and GRCA affiliation 'checkers'... you people are doing the leg work and I'm just doing the coordinating.)


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k9data is an open database for Golden Retriever pedigrees. This database consists entirely of information provided by end users.

Though you can register, it is not necessary to register just to look up your dog(s). It is important to realize it's a database which depends on the honesty of the poster, and the research of some dedicated volunteers, who make corrections as necessary and yes, they can ban individuals who have been found to post un-true information.

You enter the name of the dog you are interested in, and if the dog is in the database, the pedigree link comes up. From there you can check on siblings, offspring, COI, vertical pedigrees (which shows siblings, and, depending on the view you choose, their clearances or longevity), and 5
generation pedigrees, again offering a view of clearances or longevity.

You can then check an AKC number by copying it and going to American Kennel Club - Store scrolling down to Dogs Look up and clicking. Then just paste and enter the number. You can check on siblings by changing the last two digits, for example I may search on a dog with 01 for the last two digits. If there were more puppies in the litter, I can change the last two digits to 02, etc.


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OFA is a non-profit organization that collate and disseminate information concerning orthopedic and genetic diseases of animals. For more information about who they are you can go to OFA: Frequently Asked Questions and read more.

The OFA website offers much more than just a look up for one dog.

Go to Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and type in the name of the dog you are interested in. If he or she is in the database, s/he will come up along with all of his or her clearances. You want to see hips and
elbows done BEFORE the dog is bred. The trend now is to also register hearts and thyroid with OFA. Prior to this fairly recent development with the OFA database, there was no public record kept that was so
easily accessible.

The dog will come up with his or her clearances. Click on his or her name and the sire and dam of the dog come up, along with a list of siblings, and offspring, and their OFA data. If you are really interested in research, you can compare birth dates to clearance dates and follow as far back as you can on OFA.

Some breeders will say that they don't use OFA -they have their vet look at them. However its believed it takes an experience trained technician to properly read and interpret the OFA x-rays. You decide for yourself.

OFA is the gold standard for the US, while Canada uses OVC.

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"Heaven goes by favour. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." Mark Twain

Another good source of information for the first time puppy buyer:
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/...ad.php?t=50926 (English vs American-Those Seeking Info)

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"Heaven goes by favour. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." Mark Twain

This is another good thread about what to look for when looking for a breeder and puppy
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/...ad.php?t=32279 (A word about breeder websites)

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This is also a good reference on questions to ask a breeder:
http://www.grca.org/pdf/all_about/Pu...Flyer_Rev2.pdf

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Here is some good information on what the clearances that are so important look like

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/...ad.php?t=71378 (what clearances look like)

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Here is another thread that might be helpful
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/...ad.php?t=51266 (Here's another puppy buyer checklist...)

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