Golden Retriever Dog Forums banner

For all the breeders out there...

4K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  sterregold 
#1 ·
I'm not sure if this is the right spot for this, but someday down the road (a few years from now) I want to get into hobby breeding. I am still very new to this world and have a lot to learn so I realize its going to be a while before I am even close to ready to start breeding. Oliver and I will be taking the first steps together from showing to agility to other exciting adventures. If we do well I am hoping he will be my first stud dog (he's 5 months so very long way to go!). I was just wondering how the breeders on the GRF got started with breeding. I know many of you have been breeding for tens of years and would love to get any advice/recommendations. Oliver's breeder has offered to be a mentor to me down the road and she's helping me with showing him as well. This forum has definitely already been really helpful with giving me an idea of what goes into breeding, but I know i have barely brushed the surface. Please let me know if you know of any good resources or if you have any advice! I'm going to list a few of the questions I have below (sorry if they're stupid :eek:)

I have 2 male goldens - 1 I intend to breed once proven, 1 that will not be bred. I want to get another puppy around a year and a half from now.

Since I want to get into breeding would it be better to look for a girl or a boy?
Can I even get a girl if I'm going to have an intact male?
Usually when getting a puppy with full registration you have to sign some sort of co-ownership contact. Are these good/bad?
When is a good time to start doing clearances? (Oliver had his eyes done in Jan).
What's your story - success and mistakes?
Is it possible to breed and work full time?
Once I start "assembling my breeding team" (didn't know how to put that?) would there have to be a division of my males - for example would they get hostile towards each other?
Are there tests or some sort of checklist you go through before deciding if a dog will be good to breed?
I know usually people don't start breeding until the dogs are 2 years of age - how long can you continue to breed for?
What is the typical age to start breeding your dog (males vs females)?

I'm sure there are a million of other questions, but these are the only ones I can think of right now. Thank you for your insight!
 
See less See more
#3 ·
jFirst, if you are going to consider becoming a hobby breeder .. the most important things to do is to research and find yourself a really good mentor ~ do not try to do this on your own.

To answer your first question .. girl or a boy? That depends on how much time, effort and money you are willing to expend. Owning the breeding bitch is a LOT more time consuming and costly than owning the stud dog (IMO). With a bitch you run the chance of needing an emergency c-section, which can be pretty expensive; you've also got progresteron testing, pre-natal care, extra food requirements and the list goes on.

I know plenty of breeders who have both intact males and females in their home, just know that if the bitch is in heat and you don't want to breed her during that particular season, that you will HAVE to keep both dogs separated at all times until she finishes her heat (just to be sure you don't have an "accident").

As to co-ownership .. that entirely depends on the contract agreement you come to with the breeder.

You can't do hips or elbows before 24 months with OFA, but you could clear your dogs eyes and heart earlier than that if you'd like.

I know of a number of hobby breeders that work full time, but I would strongly suggest that you arrange to get at least 2-1/2 to 3 weeks off work starting just before your bitch whelps and until the pups are well established. After that you could arrange to have someone come in to feed mom (and pups, depending on whether or not they are being weaned) let mom out and clean the whelping box, make sure there is water available, etc, etc ... all this is also dependant upon how good a mother mom is.

As to whether your dog is suitable to be bred .. it should meet the breed standard in all aspects ~ both physical and temperment. Any reputable breeder will also look at the pedigree for longevity, health, etc. Again, as a reputable breeder your dog needs all it's clearances (heart, eyes, hips and elbows as a minimum). Seeing as you can't get hip and elbow clearances from OFA until the dog is 24 months, they should not be bred until that time. IMO you should not breed your bitch after she is 5 years old, but I know a lot of stud dogs that go a lot longer than that.

Hope all this info is correct and that it's a bit of a help
 
#4 ·
I am in a similar place. Sometime down the road, I would potentially like to breed. So, here is my take. Breeding programs are built on bitches. You can choose to be a source for studs instead, but truly moving a program forward happens in the whelping box after, choosing the best match for your girl. Playing to her strengths, looking for a boy who is close to her strengths and has what she needs improved, but certainly not the same weaknesses or issues you want to fix. You also need to study pedigrees and see what is going to be a good fit there depending on your ultimate goal.
As much as I love boys and gosh do I. I am going the girl road. For me this is getting a good show prospect girls and showing them. I am doing this myself, so my girl has a UKC champion but no AKC points as of yet. Even going the show yourself road, it is not cheap to compete. I have already got her eyes done once, her heart cardiologist, and am waiting until she turns two to see if she will clear hips and elbows. Really, until that point, she is just potential. I know there is a posibility that she might not clear, I have friends and acquaintances that have had just that happen. So, I may be out my financial investment, but the experience I am gaining is well worth it because the hobby is competition and I have learned so much.
With boys, they can be a great way to break into the showing hobby and I do have friends that are comfortable house intact boys and girls. I personally don't want/need the drama. I have heard of boys who go off their food when the girls come in, add to that girls can trigger each other to come in and you could have girls in season for months at a time. It is not something I am willing to deal with at this point.:D
Also, for boys (I really was tempted to go the all boys route) they need to be Exceptional examples of the breed. Remember, your boy(s) will be looked to to be darn near perfect and to "fix" what is not perfect in a girl.
Also, and this is not fair since two sets of genes are needed, the stud dog almost always gets the blame when puppies show an issue of any kind and the best things about the puppies are usually credited to the mom. I sometimes wonder how stud dog owners deal with the double standard?
As far as costs, that is dependent, yes girls are pricey:
Cost of puppy
Cost of care
Cost of competing to prove worth of breeding
Cost of health testing
Cost of breeding, stud service, progesterone tests, etc.
Cost of whelping and raising puppies

Good boys will also be costly
Cost of puppy
Cost of care
Cost of completing
Cost of health testing
Cost of advertising
Cost of breeding tests, sperm evaluation, brucellosis, possibly frozen semen storage

With nice boys the cost of a competition career is normally extended. Most breeders will look for boys that have at least the same level of achievement as their girl, but really like to see more. So, boys will be out more earning either higher leaves honors or honors in multiple venues.you also want to keep them out so the don't just fade into your backyard. You want them out where they stay visible to bitch owners. This is also why advertising is important. With boys you will have the right to accept or reject bitches, but you really don't have much control beyond exposure to how many or quality of bitches that are brought to your boy. There are some very nice boys out their who have only been used a few times in their lives.

So...I would suggest really thinking about what direction you want to go.
From what you shared, if it were me, I would stick with boys.

If you do want girls, you just need to realize, your existing boy may never be what your girl(s) will need and you will have to maintain separation while they are in season.
 
#24 ·
I personally don't want/need the drama. I have heard of boys who go off their food when the girls come in, add to that girls can trigger each other to come in and you could have girls in season for months at a time. It is not something I am willing to deal with at this point.:D
.
Yes, that was Copley, and he was so dramatic about girls in season I had to snicker, but yet it was serious bc it was hard keeping weight on him anyway, and he went on a hunger strike. He jumped out of our 6 foot yard fence to get to Miss Bunny (who knew he could do that), and he chattered his teeth nonstop, paced with a consistent high pitch whine that sounded like when a tea pot is boiling. PIA! At one point, I took him all by himself to our lake cottage an hour away just so he could eat and get some rest in the car. He was absolutely a skirt chasing girl crazy fool with girls in season.:)
 
#6 · (Edited)
I never intended to be a breeder. I still don't classify myself as a breeder most of the time... when someone asks me about the dogs and why we have so many more often than not i will say because we show and compete in obedience...

Breeding is my least favorite thing to do ... and every time I breed I am excited to start and plan the breeding but then I am a nervous wreck afterward and every time I breed I find myself asking myself what was I thinking... why did I do this...

How did I become a breeder. I had a top ranked Flat Coated Retriever... she won Breed in every show she was entered in with or without a professional handler. Flat coats have real small gene pool problems ie. cancer at young ages, there is some belief amongst some flat coat people that any dog or bitch that passes their clearances should be bred in an attempt to widen the gene pool. We typically don't do repeat breedings for just that reason. My girl was gorgeous, an Am. Can. Champion with an obedience title and structurally just lovely, biddable, and had all her clearances... her breeder said I should consider having a litter and there ya have it. I was a breeder....

You have to remember that every time you breed you put the health of your girl at risk. Just last night a friend posted a picture of a xray of a bitch who was headed into surgery for an emergency c section - a puppy had gotten twisted around and was folded in half and stuck... that puppy and another died in utero... the girl had emergency surgery 3 puppies survived. I have had to make a decision to euthanize a puppy at birth... I have had two die in my arms... and then we have Bing .... I have had two friends recently who had to wean week old puppies due to mastitis in the mom and then bottle feed (doesn't work if you work full time) I had a friend watch an entire litter of labs die one at a time over a week... every day she came home from work to find another puppy dead... nothing she could do. A friend with a litter of 17 watched 9 puppies die and another person I know lost a Borzoi bitch in whelp...and not hte first time folks have lost bitches in whelp. Breeding is not for the faint of heart... it is scary as hell.... I had my furnace die when Connie and Bing were babies ... a litter of 8 and no heat in the house... I had a space heater cranked... replaced the furnace 4 days later... it was mid january... puppies need to be kept warm. Lets not even talk about singletons or moms who reject their puppies a friend of mine had to muzzle nd force her bitch to feed the puppies... When Bing was fading I was up every two hours giving Sub Q fluids and tube feeding which is honestly the scariest thing I have ever done in my life.

Since I want to get into breeding would it be better to look for a girl or a boy?

Well you can't be a breeder without a girl .... and there is a saying "the best dog ain't necessarily the one ya got" so you can have boys but that doesn't mean that your boys will be a good match with your girl. If you only have boys you have to wait for people to come to you and want to use your boys.

Can I even get a girl if I'm going to have an intact male?

Yes but you better be careful... its a big pain in the neck...


Usually when getting a puppy with full registration you have to sign some sort of co-ownership contact. Are these good/bad?

I do not have co ownerships on any of my dogs even those I got from breeders. Co ownerships can be great if you have a good relationship with your breeder, they can be awful if you don't... with my first litter I did put a lease on her with her breeder so that her breeder would be considered a co owner and co breeder for that litter. With it being my first litter I wanted to have a respected person on the registrations to give me some credibility

When is a good time to start doing clearances? (Oliver had his eyes done in Jan).

Heart over a year old
Hips and elbows after age 2
eyes yearly
genetics whenever but before you breed
some will say do your clearances before you put any money into showing your dog or competing

What's your story - success and mistakes?

I told it up there... my mistakes are few luckily... I have had some great mentors who I LISTEN TO ... my mistakes usually have to do with puppy people... placing a puppy and then recognizing that I probably should have held out for another home... not that their home is bad but they aren't in contact with me as muhc as I would like...

another question that i am always asking is when to treat a puppy medically and when not to. This is a personal decision but I can say that I am not sure that saving Bing (as much as I love him) was the right thing to do.

Is it possible to breed and work full time?

Yes but it is not easy and hope you don't have any problems... that first couple of weeks is really hard as the babies are fragile and mom can kill them by sitting on them (I lost a puppy that way and I was standing right there, I mean right there and before I could stop her she had sat on a puppy, he died a day later)... you have to make sure everyone gets to the bar .... I know folks that work full time, I dont know how they do it.


Once I start "assemblng my breeding team" (didn't know how to put that?) would there have to be a division of my males - for example would they get hostile towards each other?

some do some don't it depends on your boys...

Are there tests or some sort of checklist you go through before deciding if a dog will be good to breed?

Each of my dogs has to prove them are worth breeding... they have to achieve something. A championship, obedience titles, clearances... being a good girl or boy in my house is expected but not enough with rare exception. They have to show me that they have something special that makes it worth adding their genes to the gene pool. I have a boy here who I adore ... I LOVE HIM and it hurts me to think that I will not have his puppy someday... but this is NOT about ME.... this is about the breed and as much as I adore him, he will not add anything to the gene pool that I think is good or special enough to add. And honestly there are aspects of his temperament that I think will harm the gene pool... REGARDLESS of how much I love him... Breeding decisions need to be unemotional... they need to be based on what is best for the breed... not on how cute puppies are or how much you love your dog...


I know usually people don't start breeding until the dogs are 2 years of age - how long can you continue to breed for?

this is an interesting question and makes me wonder why you want to breed? and I think that is a question for you to answer. I have never bred a girl at two, my girls at two are competing and being busy ... of my recent girls, Meghan was bred at 5 after retiring and attending westminster she had one litter Shalva was 3 almost 4, she had 1 litter. Kaelyn was 4 for her first litter and 6 for her second .... Connie will be 4 for her first litter and if she has another will remain to be seen. Theoretically you can start at two and go until 9 if you plan on making money off the backs of your girls and being a irresponsible breeder. Realistically other than waiting until final clearances at two the decisions about the upper end of the age spectrum depend on how well your girl does whelping and recovering... is she is good shape, how big were her previous litters, how does she act. I have seen girls at 7 who were young and healthy and active and in great shape and I have seen girls at 7 who were old girls. I know of a girl who was bred at 9 and did fantastic... I would not do that to my kaelyn who at 9 is starting to act a bit older.


What is the typical age to start breeding your dog (males vs females)?

Dogs need clearances so they can theoretically be bred at age 2 and beyond

I will admit that some of your questions made me go hmmmmm (as the song goes). I never understand why people want to breed. Most if not all of the responsible breeders that I know came to breeding much the same way that I did... they started off showing and competing and doing things with their dogs and they wanted the next generation for themselves... but the result is that you have 5 or 6 other puppies that come along with the next pup that you are keeping. Honestly I can't imagine putting the girl that i love at risk if I am not keeping a puppy or contributing something to the breed as a whole. Breeding is scary ... I think that anyone who breeds and does it right and loves their dogs will tell you it is scary...
 
#8 ·
....... [/SIZE][/FONT]
Are there tests or some sort of checklist you go through before deciding if a dog will be good to breed?

Each of my dogs has to prove them are worth breeding... they have to achieve something. A championship, obedience titles, clearances... being a good girl or boy in my house is expected but not enough with rare exception. They have to show me that they have something special that makes it worth adding their genes to the gene pool. I have a boy here who I adore ... I LOVE HIM and it hurts me to think that I will not have his puppy someday... but this is NOT about ME.... this is about the breed and as much as I adore him, he will not add anything to the gene pool that I think is good or special enough to add. And honestly there are aspects of his temperament that I think will harm the gene pool... REGARDLESS of how much I love him... Breeding decisions need to be unemotional... they need to be based on what is best for the breed... not on how cute puppies are or how much you love your dog...


..... Honestly I can't imagine putting the girl that i love at risk if I am not keeping a puppy or contributing something to the breed as a whole. Breeding is scary ... I think that anyone who breeds and does it right and loves their dogs will tell you it is scary...
This is so well put... A huge thanks to you and Sally's Mom for being so conscientious and ethical and being so open here, what a great education for all of us (both the people who might like to breed someday and those of us who will only ever be puppy-buyers.)
 
#7 ·
Like, Shalva, it was my interest in showing in obedience with my first two Goldens, that opened the door for me. By showing I was serious about competing with my dogs, I was trusted enough to get a bitch with breeding potential.

I cannot imagine if you do not have a kennel situation keeping intact girls and boys. My neutered boys are a handful when the girls are in heat. I can only imagine how tough they would be intact...

Then there are the risks for the bitch. I have had a bitch reabsorb all her pups and have only one pup left at the due date.. Only to find that one died in utero and my husband had to do a c-section to remove it. I was easily out $1000 between progesterone testing and part of the stud fee... And the c-section was free. Two years ago, Tiki who had no problems with her first litter needed an emergency c-section... She was carrying five pups, two were dead. Again, my husband did the c-section... And this past summer, Basil got mastitis in various glands and would spike fevers...and it was so scary, because you don't want to use meds that will hurt the pups, you don't want your bitch to be sick and in pain, you are hoping you won't have to bottle feed a litter of nine pups...

And when you produce these pups, you have to be prepared to take them back...it has happened to me three times. Fortunately, I have network of help and connections.. But I got a pup returned at 10 months, was neutered one week before, and I had three bitches in standing heat... I have friends with a kennel who took him and found a home that night.

And what if there are health issues with the pups? Like Shalva's Bing?

As far as stud dogs, I am always looking for a sire with titles... And of course, requisite clearances. My set up, no physical fences, would not allow for intact Goldens of the opposite sex in the same house.

I work full time, but between my husband's schedule and mine, there is rarely not someone around.... I take time off at the due date...
 
#10 · (Edited)
I got started in goldens doing competitive obedience. We did very well and I wanted to continue down that path. So, along came the next obedience prospect who also happened to be the breeder's "pick of the litter". At that point, I really had no interest in showing in comformation and was happily doing my obedience thing. However, I did promise the breeder that if he continued to show the promise he did as a young puppy, we would try showing him. I am a person of my word, so when he was little, we took him to some puppy matches and had some fun with him. At 9 months old, we found he was dyslastic so we stopped showing him in both venues-conformation and obedience as his hips were pretty bad. However, I was being bitten by the show bug

I then subsribed to the GRNews and saw the most beautiful dog that I had ever seen. I just knew I had to have one of his puppies. My frist obedience dog was getting older and the second was not a dog who I could ask to show beyond novice level, so I was looking for another puppy. So, I called the breeder and as luck would have it, she had a female(I had only ever owned males at this point and still had no interest in breeding) from him that she was looking for a home for. She sent photos and I was beyond smitten. That was 16 years ago. That girl went on to become the foundation bitch of our breeding program.

I got her and went to puppy matches again and again, I was very lucky. A person who was judging the sporting breeds at a match saw my girl, Bailey and told me what a nice puppy she was. She took me under her wing(she was a handler and also bred labs and GWPs) and showed me how to groom and present a dog and I thank Bailey every day for the patience she had with me learning all these things on her!!!!!!! Goodness knows, my grooming wasn't always the greatest and sometimes I would stack her and her feet wouldn't be just right-but she would fix them and put them where they belonged. I could not have asked for a better dog to learn with.

The breeder was a big help as far as pedigrees go and things like that but she lived 5 hours away from me so she wasn't someone that I could travel to see to get help with grooming and such.

I listened to her about what she said about breeding. I was happily showing away in conformation as an owner handler learning the ropes and she told me one day she thought it was time to think about breeding her. I was in shock as I still wasn't really contemplating breeding much at that time. But, I listened to what she had to say and we found a dog that we thought complemented her and from that litter, we had our first owner/breeder/handled AKC champion who also had group placements. It was quite a ride and then I was hooked-BIG TIME!!!! That boy is still with me-he is now 13.5 and he stood at stud until he was about 12. However, I think the thing I am most proud about is when he earned his GRCA Oustanding Sire Award.

As someone else had said, girls look to the boys to improve upon what the girls have so they do need to be very good examples of the breed. But, the big thing is can they reproduce those good qualities that they have? Not all of them can.

So we have continued on from there and are now 5 generations out from where we started with our breeding program.

I do have males and females that live in my house as a pack and I do not have kennels. We have one kennel run in our garage that is attached to our house(which is also where I groom that we use for when visiting girls come to be bred) We do have a spare bedroom that we use as the "puppy room" when we have puppies and we also use it when we have girls in season to keep them separated from the boys. I do not have boys that howl and go off their food, but there are certainly a lot of them that do. I love my boys and couldn't imagine life without them. Yes, I am a breeder, but we do have 5 intact male dogs-13.5 yo, almost 9 yo, 3 yo, 1 yo and an 8 month old puppy. They are all fine with one another and live very peacablly with each other.

As others have said, you MUST have a good mentor who has had success in the breed themselves to teach you and help you learn. Breeding is not for the faint of heart, whether it be a stud dog or a brood bitch. As a stud dog owner, I have dropped everything to run to the repro vet which is 2 hrs away one way to ship semen out because someone's girl was ready to be bred. I have also had girls in to be bred on every major holiday and when they need bred, they need bred. It isn't something that can wait until it is more convenient.

As a bitch owner, I have sat up for days with my girls from the time the temperature drops until they are done delivering puppies. I do not leave puppies alone-ever-until they are 2 weeks old and their eyes are open and they are up on their feet. So, this means I don't get much sleep when we have a litter. I nap during the day when someone else is at home and can keep an eye on mom and babies. Mastitis, metritis, hydrops, retained puppies, emergency c-sections-we have been there and done it all. Unfortunately, I have also had friends lose their girls to complications of pregnancy or labor. I agree with others that have said it is very hard to work full time outside the home(at a job that doesn't have some degree of flexibility) as you will need to take time off for litters and other things that come up.

I have also had girls have their puppies a day or two early and so I have had to move back birthday parties, be late for family functions,etc because when it is time, it is time. If this is not something that you are prepared to do, I suggest you don't even think about breeding. I am blessed to have the support of my friends and family in this endeavor and they are helpful and supportive but not everyone has that.

We may be called "hobby breeders" but this really isn't a hobby, it is a way of life. Dogs need care 24/7 and 365 days a year. It isn't a "job" that stops when you walk out of the office. It is something that you live and breathe.

As to how to get started-go to shows, get books, learn as much as you possibly can and build a foundation of learning. Be open to people who have many more years of experience than you do. Go to shows-compete in some type of venue with your dog to prove that it is worthy of being bred and make sure that you have experienced people evaluate the dog to the Golden Retriever standard. The dog needs to fit the standard and be a good representative of the breed, it needs to have the proper temperament and it needs to have all the clearances in place. Final clearances do not happen until after a dog is 2 years old so there is no use even thinking about breeding until you have all your ducks in a row.

If you truly want to have a breeding program, yes, you must have bitches. You should get the best possible bitch that you can possibly purchase from a person who has an established reputation in the breed who produces good dogs. It is not going to be easy to get a breeder to hand over one of their girls. You have to have proven yourself that you are going to compete with this dog and do things the right way. No reputable breeder wants one of their girls to be used as a puppy producing machine. For example, I was able to get our foundation bitch from her breeder because I was actively competing in obedience and was showing our dog for his UD at the time. This told her that I was serious about my dogs and the commitment to them.

It is also rather rare that your first dog will actually be a dog that you wind up using in a breeding program. People usually purchase a dog and then build from there with the knowledge that they learned with that first dog.

I would also advise going to as many shows as possible just so you can take things in and learn and watch and study. Being a good breeder isn't something that you just decide to do one day......it takes years and years of preparation and its a long haul before you get there. We now have multiple generations of breeder/owner/handled AKC champions and many other people who have also put championships and other titles on their dogs. It is a LOT of hard work.
 
#11 ·
We may be called "hobby breeders" but this really isn't a hobby, it is a way of life. Dogs need care 24/7 and 365 days a year. It isn't a "job" that stops when you walk out of the office. It is something that you live and breathe.
This statement rings so true for me right now with a broken ankle.

My husband was on a business trip in Utah... I drove myself from the YMCA (scene of the crime so to speak) then to the hospital, to the pharmacy for drugs and then home with a broken ankle that they opted not to cast until the following monday (this was friday)

I HAVE 9 dogs... some old, some young, some in between... some that can be trusted loose in the house some that can't be and those three go down into pens set up in our basement for times when we are not home, ie. grocery store, go to work etc... My dogs do not ask to go in and out to potty because there is always someone going in and out and there is always an open door opportunity so they don't typically ask, we might notice someone acting a little restless so we open the door. I had 3 dogs in the basement pens, 2 in crates upstairs, 4 loose in the house when I got home from the hospital and nobody to help me ... I had no way of getting the three girls from the basement upstairs. I had to call my petsitter to come and let them out. I had no way of feeding dogs as I was on crutches and couldn't carry dishes.... luckily a wonderful friend drove over an hour to get to my house and help me.

I had Natalie entered in the springfield shows and broke my ankle the day before, I had a handler lined up so not an issue but the thing was getting her two hours south to the shows...it was a major and you don't break majors unless its a real emergency and I really wanted her to show but honestly there was just no way so I facebooked everyone I could think of who MIGHT be there and told them I was pulling...

and Natalies breeder said to me

"you don't live a lifestyle that allows you to have a broken ankle" now of course nobody wants to have a broken ankle it hurts its a pain... but she was right... this lifestyle is pretty limiting and it doesn't allow for emergencies ....

try going on vacation? we haven't been on vacation in years... a weekend here or there with the dogs at a show usually counts for us. I go to Crufts often but not with my husband usually... do you know how much 9 dogs cost at a kennel... IF I felt comfortable kenneling them... so we found a woman to move into our house for 20 bucks a night... she works during the day but is here at night... When I broke my ankle my hairdresser and a few others offered to come over and help .... but they have one dog or two dogs ... and walking into this house can be a bit overwhelming... i thanked them for their offer and tried to find someone else who knew what this house can be like...

don't get hurt? It is impossible to get healed with dogs slamming into you and knowing you are hurt and wanting to snuggle with you because that is there job dont you know, to make you feel better... not to mention get all the dog chores done

want a neat or clean house? shoot fur is a condiment in my house.

Don't forget that even when you don't have something to do there is always a dog to be bathed and groomed or exercised or worked...

People are constantly traipsing in and out meeting dogs meeting puppies and lets not even talk about the bills and expenses of just having 9 dogs.... or the noise... I hope you have tolerant neighbors... we are on 6 acres here and we are not right on top of each other and I know that my dogs are loud... shoot its a pack of them and add in Natalie the foghorn and it sounds like a kennel.

Are you going to keep your retired dogs? or are you going to place them in new homes once you are no longer breeding them? This is a problem many breeders run into... you only have so much room for the next generation if yu are keeping a puppy... so do you "place" your older dogs ??? I can't, and that limits the amount of breeding I do.

What about the dirty looks you get as soon as you say you are a breeder? when people assume you are a scumbag breeder even if you are showing and doing things with your dogs???

HV is right... this is a lifestyle ... my husband is as deeply involved in this lifestyle as I am so it works... but it can be hard... I ca't tell you the family events we have missed because a dog is sick or we have a show or a litter is due...

i love what I do... I love coming home to the herd of dogs... I love the puppies ... but I do want to sometimes go on vacation.... it would of been nice to not have dogs slamming into my ankle ... but the breeding is my least favorite part, to me it is a necessary evil if I want to continue on with my lines... and it is definitely not for the faint of heart.
 
#12 ·
Shalva so sorry about your ankle..it is soooo hard to manage dogs with injuries...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shalva
#15 ·
Oh it was ridiculous... thank goodness a good friend of mine (she had a puppy from me) who is a surgeon came up from Massachusettes to take care of me and help wtih the dogs... She drove over an hour to get here and thankfully wasn't on call that night.... I owe her big time. I couldn't have done it without her
 
#16 ·
Oh wow, Shalva, I'm so sorry about your ankle - definitely a great example of the difficulties that come with breeding. I hope it heals quickly! Thank you everyone for your advice and wisdom I am definitely taking it all to heart!

I have another question when it comes to breeding - I dont know if there is necessarily a right answer, but what is considered more important when proving a dog - conformation or sports like agility, field/hunting, obedience, etc.

This one's going to be very poorly worded - apologies.
And when proving a dog in conformation what would be the lowest title allowable that would still make that dog considered breeding quality? I guess I'm asking if a dog is only worthy if he/she is a champion or if higher than that needs to be achieved. I don't know much about titles when it comes to conformation, sorry for my lack of knowledge :eek:!

Thank you all for your insight!
 
#17 ·
For me a Championship is most important ... I don't personally care much abut a Gr. Ch. its nice to have but if a dog has a Ch. that is enough...

If they do not have a Championship and/or aren't being shown and are using other venues to prove their worth in breeding then I want to see upper level titles at minimum. I want to see a CDX (companion dog excellent) or a SH (senior hunter) or RE (rally excellent) or upper level agility titles.... again something that shows me that they are adding something to the gene pool beyond the basics ...
 
#18 ·
I've said this before, but I don't think titles themselves, especially lower level obedience/agility titles (and I consider CDX and RE to be lower level) tell you anything about a dog. MOST goldens should be able to get a CDX if they have decent training. What earning titles does do is provides information to the owner about that dog - what is their drive like, how do they handle pressure, etc. A dog who has to struggle to earn the CDX, doesn't enjoy the work or plods through the exercises is going to pass along very different working genes than a dog who loves the work, prances around in the ring and loves every minute of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: coaraujo
#20 ·
The breeder I last got a puppy from, just found out another bitch she owns that just turned 2, has a slight problem with one hip that keeps her from OFA fair. She had spent time showing and working in obedience and now, all that time is down the drain. She won't be able to have pups with that bitch. So what's a breeder to do? Look for a home for this girl or keep her as a pet? Hard decision. Fortunately this breeder has only 3 dogs including the bitch with the bad hip. I would feel pretty devistated if I had a dog that I had high hopes in breeding in the future only to find out at age 2 there is no hope and you are back to scratch.

I would also like to breed. My main reason is to give back the sunshine and love that I have enjoyed over the years and to continue that ability for other people to enjoy what I have had.
 
#23 ·
As has been said previously, breeding is not for the faint of heart. There will be times when a dog doesn't pass a clearance, gets an injury, etc and the hopes and dreams that you had for the dog may no longer be possible, especially if it includes using that dog in a breeding program.

We had a bitch years ago who only needed a major to finish her championship and had group placements from the classes. Unfortunately, she had thickening of the femoral head on one side and so she was not ever bred and was spayed. There isn't a breeder out there that hasn't had this kind of thing happen to them.

I believe it is a very individual decision on whether to keep a dog or place them if they are not going to be used in your breeding program for whetever reason. Other issues that can come up are missing teeth, a bad bite, too tall, too short, doesn't wind up showing the correct conformation potential that you had seen at 8 weeks and really the list is endless. Sometimes just the perfect home comes along(for me that is usually a good friend or family member who already has an attachment to that dog) and other times the dog stays with you for life.

It is a fine line to walk and one has to be ever vigilent to make sure they are not just collecting dogs and making sure that each dog is still getting individual time and attention that they each deserve. There are only so many hours in the day, and each person has their own comfort level as to how many dogs is enough. I believe either way, the best interests of that dog need to be in the forefront.

I do know other people like Sally's mom who have kept dogs who didn't pass a clearance and some even go on to finish their championships with them, as Sally said to promote their breeding program. I also know lots of people who have continued doing perfomrance events with dogs that didn't pass a clearance. A friend has a dog who had bilateral elbow dysplasia and he had surgery to correct it. He is now a search and rescue dog(the dog was not placed and is with his owner).
 
#21 · (Edited)
Well, I had a bitch I bought go from OFA FAIR to mildly unilaterally dysplastic. She was purchased with breeding potential. Her hips didn't make her any less my pet and companion(she cleared at 24 months, then I re xrayed her at 44 months). She went on to get her UD, RA , CGC , and 2 RE legs and was going for her title when she had a splenic tumor that killed her. She remained sound until the day she died. No reason the breeder cannot continue to get titles in obedience... And further the reputation of her dogs. My first golden, Sally, came to me due to her luxating patella. I got it fixed and she easily got a CDX. I guess for me, it is not all about breeding,but doing the most possible with the dogs that I have. My two boys have been neutered since under one year of age. Sentimental picks, one boy has two obedience titles and the other one dabbles in tracking with me.
 
#22 ·
I got my first Golden in 1995. He was a well-loved pet, but I did not do anything competitive with him. I got my next, Juniper, in 2002, and lost my first boy shortly after. Juni's breeder was a work colleague and active in competition with her dogs so she encouraged me to try obedience and conformation. Showing was not Juni's favourite thing, but I learned a lot, and and did get her CD, and trained her through CDX before having to give it up due to discovering she had one bad hip when she started to refuse jumps on me.
By this point I also had Winter from the same breeder. Because of the effort I had made with Juni, I got the pick male from that litter with more serious intent of showing and competing with him. With Winter I also got involved with field work, which has become my primary interest. It was from there I moved towards breeding because I wanted something very specific--a Golden who I found visually appealing, who also had the working ability to train to the Master level. I got Breeze to that end from a long time versatile breeder, and she has been the foundation of the program I have started.

My goal in breeding has been to produce dogs I want to train and hunt with. So for me, a show Ch is not as big a priority any more. I have one on Winter(with some wonderful wins along the way, including an owner-handled JAM at the GRCC national) and am points away with Butch, and will show Wings as well. But for me, a conformation title is a bonus (and frankly, some of what wins big in the show ring has coat characteristics which are really counterproductive to my goals). What I really want to see is advanced working titles--SH at very minimum, and then I need to know the dog and its potential very well. Ideally, MH, *** or more.

I was involved with the breed for 13 years before I bred my first litter. That really gave me the chance to learn about the lines I like in depth and develop strong relationships with my mentors. There is a lot of information about influential dogs that you only learn when you have been seriously involved in the breed for a while. I have bred to dogs who have luckily been very close by but also to dogs across the continent. In five litters, I have only used one of my own boys once! I went to boys who had what my girls needed to work towards my long-term goals. If the only goal is to have a litter of pups, and you do not know where you are going to take that breeding, and how you might build on it in the next generation, then you have to consider whether you are making the breed stronger.

So my biggest advice would be to not rush. Work with the boy you have. Get some titles on him, and explore some of the competitive and performance venues open to you with this breed. Get to really know the different lines out there and their strengths and weaknesses, and how they would fit into your long-term goals. Then if you still really want to have puppies, get a girl from the best possible breeding you can find of the lines you like, and search for the right boy for her, IF she turns out. If you think you do not really want to handle the work and potential heartbreak of whelping and rearing a litter (plus the work of screening homes, and managing interviews and visits) then look for a really good boy and invest your effort into training and titling so that people with nice girls may want to use him--doing your utmost with the boy you have now will also help you get the opportunity to get a great boy in the future--and who knows, Oliver could turn out awesome--you will just have to do that work to know what you have before you can start thinking about moving forward.

As a hobby breeder, the dogs really do have to be your passion. I support the dogs--any money that has come in from puppies is just a scratch on the surface of what my guys activities cost, on top of the expenses of breeding thoughtful litters with comprehensive testing. I spend money on my dogs and their activities, the way some people spend money on golf clubs, green fees, and golfing holidays!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheZ's and LJack
#28 ·
And then there is the heartbreak when you do a lot of planning for a special litter, work out difficult logistics (shipping fresh chilled from rural Montana to Ontario on a weekend....), spend a lot of money on testing to get the timing right, shell out for a TCI and then end up with a failed pregnancy. Just did this, and essentially spent what would have been my spring break vacation fund to end up with no puppies, and now no training trip to Alabama either....
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top