For all the breeders out there... - Page 3 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums

Sally's Mom · #21 (**permalink**) 02-11-2013, 06:50 PM

Well, I had a bitch I bought go from OFA FAIR to mildly unilaterally dysplastic. She was purchased with breeding potential. Her hips didn't make her any less my pet and companion(she cleared at 24 months, then I re xrayed her at 44 months). She went on to get her UD, RA , CGC , and 2 RE legs and was going for her title when she had a splenic tumor that killed her. She remained sound until the day she died. No reason the breeder cannot continue to get titles in obedience... And further the reputation of her dogs. My first golden, Sally, came to me due to her luxating patella. I got it fixed and she easily got a CDX. I guess for me, it is not all about breeding,but doing the most possible with the dogs that I have. My two boys have been neutered since under one year of age. Sentimental picks, one boy has two obedience titles and the other one dabbles in tracking with me.

sterregold · #22 (**permalink**) 02-11-2013, 08:05 PM

I got my first Golden in 1995. He was a well-loved pet, but I did not do anything competitive with him. I got my next, Juniper, in 2002, and lost my first boy shortly after. Juni's breeder was a work colleague and active in competition with her dogs so she encouraged me to try obedience and conformation. Showing was not Juni's favourite thing, but I learned a lot, and and did get her CD, and trained her through CDX before having to give it up due to discovering she had one bad hip when she started to refuse jumps on me.
By this point I also had Winter from the same breeder. Because of the effort I had made with Juni, I got the pick male from that litter with more serious intent of showing and competing with him. With Winter I also got involved with field work, which has become my primary interest. It was from there I moved towards breeding because I wanted something very specific--a Golden who I found visually appealing, who also had the working ability to train to the Master level. I got Breeze to that end from a long time versatile breeder, and she has been the foundation of the program I have started.

My goal in breeding has been to produce dogs I want to train and hunt with. So for me, a show Ch is not as big a priority any more. I have one on Winter(with some wonderful wins along the way, including an owner-handled JAM at the GRCC national) and am points away with Butch, and will show Wings as well. But for me, a conformation title is a bonus (and frankly, some of what wins big in the show ring has coat characteristics which are really counterproductive to my goals). What I really want to see is advanced working titles--SH at very minimum, and then I need to know the dog and its potential very well. Ideally, MH, *** or more.

I was involved with the breed for 13 years before I bred my first litter. That really gave me the chance to learn about the lines I like in depth and develop strong relationships with my mentors. There is a lot of information about influential dogs that you only learn when you have been seriously involved in the breed for a while. I have bred to dogs who have luckily been very close by but also to dogs across the continent. In five litters, I have only used one of my own boys once! I went to boys who had what my girls needed to work towards my long-term goals. If the only goal is to have a litter of pups, and you do not know where you are going to take that breeding, and how you might build on it in the next generation, then you have to consider whether you are making the breed stronger.

So my biggest advice would be to not rush. Work with the boy you have. Get some titles on him, and explore some of the competitive and performance venues open to you with this breed. Get to really know the different lines out there and their strengths and weaknesses, and how they would fit into your long-term goals. Then if you still really want to have puppies, get a girl from the best possible breeding you can find of the lines you like, and search for the right boy for her, IF she turns out. If you think you do not really want to handle the work and potential heartbreak of whelping and rearing a litter (plus the work of screening homes, and managing interviews and visits) then look for a really good boy and invest your effort into training and titling so that people with nice girls may want to use him--doing your utmost with the boy you have now will also help you get the opportunity to get a great boy in the future--and who knows, Oliver could turn out awesome--you will just have to do that work to know what you have before you can start thinking about moving forward.

As a hobby breeder, the dogs really do have to be your passion. I support the dogs--any money that has come in from puppies is just a scratch on the surface of what my guys activities cost, on top of the expenses of breeding thoughtful litters with comprehensive testing. I spend money on my dogs and their activities, the way some people spend money on golf clubs, green fees, and golfing holidays!!

hvgoldens4 · #23 (**permalink**) 02-11-2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaska7133

The breeder I last got a puppy from, just found out another bitch she owns that just turned 2, has a slight problem with one hip that keeps her from OFA fair. She had spent time showing and working in obedience and now, all that time is down the drain. She won't be able to have pups with that bitch. So what's a breeder to do? Look for a home for this girl or keep her as a pet? Hard decision. Fortunately this breeder has only 3 dogs including the bitch with the bad hip. I would feel pretty devistated if I had a dog that I had high hopes in breeding in the future only to find out at age 2 there is no hope and you are back to scratch.

I would also like to breed. My main reason is to give back the sunshine and love that I have enjoyed over the years and to continue that ability for other people to enjoy what I have had.

As has been said previously, breeding is not for the faint of heart. There will be times when a dog doesn't pass a clearance, gets an injury, etc and the hopes and dreams that you had for the dog may no longer be possible, especially if it includes using that dog in a breeding program.

We had a bitch years ago who only needed a major to finish her championship and had group placements from the classes. Unfortunately, she had thickening of the femoral head on one side and so she was not ever bred and was spayed. There isn't a breeder out there that hasn't had this kind of thing happen to them.

I believe it is a very individual decision on whether to keep a dog or place them if they are not going to be used in your breeding program for whetever reason. Other issues that can come up are missing teeth, a bad bite, too tall, too short, doesn't wind up showing the correct conformation potential that you had seen at 8 weeks and really the list is endless. Sometimes just the perfect home comes along(for me that is usually a good friend or family member who already has an attachment to that dog) and other times the dog stays with you for life.

It is a fine line to walk and one has to be ever vigilent to make sure they are not just collecting dogs and making sure that each dog is still getting individual time and attention that they each deserve. There are only so many hours in the day, and each person has their own comfort level as to how many dogs is enough. I believe either way, the best interests of that dog need to be in the forefront.

I do know other people like Sally's mom who have kept dogs who didn't pass a clearance and some even go on to finish their championships with them, as Sally said to promote their breeding program. I also know lots of people who have continued doing perfomrance events with dogs that didn't pass a clearance. A friend has a dog who had bilateral elbow dysplasia and he had surgery to correct it. He is now a search and rescue dog(the dog was not placed and is with his owner).

**Ljilly28** · #24 (**permalink**) 02-21-2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJack

I personally don't want/need the drama. I have heard of boys who go off their food when the girls come in, add to that girls can trigger each other to come in and you could have girls in season for months at a time. It is not something I am willing to deal with at this point.

.

Yes, that was Copley, and he was so dramatic about girls in season I had to snicker, but yet it was serious bc it was hard keeping weight on him anyway, and he went on a hunger strike. He jumped out of our 6 foot yard fence to get to Miss Bunny (who knew he could do that), and he chattered his teeth nonstop, paced with a consistent high pitch whine that sounded like when a tea pot is boiling. PIA! At one point, I took him all by himself to our lake cottage an hour away just so he could eat and get some rest in the car. He was absolutely a skirt chasing girl crazy fool with girls in season.

**Ljilly28** · #25 (**permalink**) 02-21-2013, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hvgoldens4

It is also rather rare that your first dog will actually be a dog that you wind up using in a breeding program. People usually purchase a dog and then build from there with the knowledge that they learned with that first dog.

This is definitely the truth for me. I tried with dogs from vastly different breeders and backgrounds but none passed all clearances though all their parents did. Ironically, my pet dogs are hips good, elbows normal, heart and eyes cleared without exception.

Because I had never lived a day of my life without goldens, even taking mine to college with me and negotiating my English teaching contracts so my dog could come to class while I taught, I looked up to breeders very much. In 2005, I thought I would like to breed a small gem of a line under the prefix PoeticGold (English teacher!). Well, now it is 2013, and that first litter is hopefully going to be born in May. In between, I learned, set goals for myself, found two mentors I trust, and had heartbreaks and setbacks, epiphanies and triumphs with three dogs who ultimately could not found the breeding program to which I aspired.

This is what I wanted before I bred a first dog under my own name and on my own conscience:

1) All four health clearances
2) Longevity in pedigree
3) American Championship, no excuses
4) A sensational temperament
5) a sensible pedigree that was not so outcrossed as to be unpredictable nor with a COI so high as to be a worry to me

It took me from 2005 to 2013 to reach and exceed these goals, and I am proud I did not give into temptations along the way to compromise these goals bc there were MANY. The main thing I see is that people get wedded to the dog they have bc they have invested in him or her and cannot bear to begin again, or people become kennel blind and imbue a wonderful dog with quality they just do not objectively possess, or people do not take the time to nurture relationships with people who have known many dogs in their dog's pedigree in real life, so the information is all there for good and bad about health and temperament. These are some dangers to be aware of, and then avoid, avoid, avoid.

My long term goals for 25 years from now: lol, who knows if I will meet them or if they will change
1) to keep temperament a "clearance": as important as hips, heart, eyes, and elbows.
2) to breed a recognizable style of dog that reflects my truest interpretation of the standard as it is written
3) to include CH/MH or CH/UD dogs every other generation at least to keep the working ability high
4) to continue to have fun and bond with each dog by doing CGC TDI RAE and CD at home
5) to keep my personal number of dogs to 6 or under
6) to place puppies wisely with people I trust
7) to win a BISS some day
8) to never get so focused on dog shows that the goldens can't swim in the ocean
9) to devote lots of resources to junior handlers like Keller and the next generation
10)to be thankful for mentors, vets, and handlers for all they do, and never lose sight of that.

nolefan · #26 (**permalink**) 02-21-2013, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ljilly28

My long term goals for 25 years from now: lol, who knows if I will meet them or if they will change
1) to keep temperament a "clearance": as important as hips, heart, eyes, and elbows.
2) to breed a recognizable style of dog that reflects my truest interpretation of the standard as it is written
3) to include CH/MH or CH/UD dogs every other generation at least to keep the working ability high
4) to continue to have fun and bond with each dog by doing CGC TDI RAE and CD at home
5) to keep my personal number of dogs to 6 or under
6) to place puppies wisely with people I trust
7) to win a BISS some day
8) to never get so focused on dog shows that the goldens can't swim in the ocean
9) to devote lots of resources to junior handlers like Keller and the next generation
10)to be thankful for mentors, vets, and handlers for all they do, and never lose sight of that.

Thank you for #1 and I will be pulling for you

**Ljilly28** · #27 (**permalink**) 02-21-2013, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalva

This statement rings so true for me right now with a broken ankle.
"you don't live a lifestyle that allows you to have a broken ankle" now of course nobody wants to have a broken ankle it hurts its a pain... but she was right... this lifestyle is pretty limiting and it doesn't allow for emergencies ....

This is too true. A client's dog broke my collarbone a few months ago and tore my rotator cuff on my heeling side. Not only has it not healed properly bc I have to teach all my classes to pay the doggy bills, but I don't dare have the surgery to fix it bc it means 2 months of incredible fragility. Ummm, 2 months of absolutely no jostling? Not on Planet Multiple dog. The issue of injury if you have a full house of dogs, or in my case train dogs to support the others, is scary.

sterregold · #28 (**permalink**) 02-21-2013, 02:23 PM

And then there is the heartbreak when you do a lot of planning for a special litter, work out difficult logistics (shipping fresh chilled from rural Montana to Ontario on a weekend....), spend a lot of money on testing to get the timing right, shell out for a TCI and then end up with a failed pregnancy. Just did this, and essentially spent what would have been my spring break vacation fund to end up with no puppies, and now no training trip to Alabama either....

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