Amica Goldens vs. Scion Goldens - Page 2 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-21-2013, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sdhgolden View Post
Thanks guys but I was really more interested in people's experiences with these breeders and/or their dogs.


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I think the problem here is that you went and found 2 breeders that are (presumably, based on what others have said... I still haven't had a chance to pull up their websites) doing it right. When we don't have lots of research to do and misleading rhetoric to sort out we get... well... sidetracked. Sorry about the derail there. My main point (which was hopefully useful in some way) was to not let a single story (or a few) automatically dissuade you from a breeder. Unfortunately, there's no way to breed a 100% guaranteed completely healthy litter -- or series of litters over a lifetime. Look for a breeder who is doing everything that they can to give the best odds possible and who is open and honest about the fact that despite all of that they are not perfect. Good luck!

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PS~ Dana Runs: I think the discussion on hip dysplasia would make a great thread! I'd love to compare sources because I'm always looking for more info. But not this week. I'm absolutely slammed at work and should either be sleeping or doing paperwork right now... and you can see how well that's working out, lol. I'll make a note to start one up this weekend when I'll hopefully have a moment or 2 to breathe.


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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 09:46 AM
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I have personally met both the women that own these kennels ~ both are very respected in the golden retriever breeding/showing circles. It may come down to you deciding who you get-on with best. What style of dog you prefer. And what they have available. If the breeding were right for me, I wouldn't hesitate to get a dog from Scion or Amica. (regardless...I ALWAYS check clearances on each and every breeding and on 5 generations back: K9data.com)

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 03:29 PM
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I have a Scion pup, who will be 2 this March. I've had a great relationship with Pat. Maddie is a great dog I couldn't ask for a better golden. As I've stated here before Maddie passed her therapy dog test right at a year, has her CGC, and is working in Rally. I also train with a 3 year old male Scion pup that is also wonderful and doing well in obedience. Both dogs are drop dead gorgeous (though I might be a tad bias

As for Amica, I've seen her dogs at shows and never heard anything negative at all about her. Both these ladies are well respected breeders. Last years BISS at national was a Scion pup.

Both these ladies are in the Austin Texas area and are active in the Austin breed club. You couldn't go wrong with either breeder.

As for HD, I was actively involved with GSD's for thirty years. Your can do everything right and it will pop up for time to time. Anyone who says otherwise is lying

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DanaRuns View Post
Well, it's all good to say that a genetic component must be there, but no one really knows for sure. We all believe there is a genetic component, but none has ever been identified; it just seems to be what makes the most sense given the evidence. But we don't know if it's really there or how it actually works.
You're right that we don't know what gene or what set of genes govern the formation of the hip socket and the ball joint, but if you see clear heritability of a trait, it's has to be genetic or epigenetic. You don't have to specifically isolate the gene or genes in order to have conclusive evidence that something is heritable.

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It's also noteworthy that dogs raised on better quality food seem to have a lower rate of HD, though that too is hard to say for sure because there have been no studies done on that.
If there's been no study, how do you arrive at the conclusion that there seems to be a relationship between food and the rate of HD? There's some evidence of the relationship between the expression of HD and weight, and there's been some evidence that calcium, phosphorus, and excess calories during growth spurts can affect bone formation, that's not really about "quality food," which you seem to define in terms of common kibbles vs. boutique kibbles and alternative diets.

There was low incidence of HD before 1950 because people shot lame dogs instead of getting x-rays.

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I think Julie is probably right about a combination of some sort of genetic predisposition combined with some sort of environmental trigger being the most likely cause. But we still don't really know. What's taken as conventional wisdom is just that; it's not science.
But it is science. OFA has demonstrated, very conclusively, that HD and ED are heritable by examining the rates of the disease based on the status of the parents. Breeding clear dogs cuts the risk by about half. What other explanation could there be aside from heritability?

Sorry to hijack, OP, but it's actually pretty relevant. The heritability of HD (and ED and SAS and PU) will highly affect your search for a litter, because you will only want to go with litters that have a rock-solid clearance history on hips, elbows, hearts, and eyes. Even if the breeders get positive comments on GRF and elsewhere, you still need to examine individual litters for their clearance history before you commit to a litter. The most reputable breeders will invite this level of scrutiny and recognize it as a quality of someone who's done their research.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-24-2013, 05:13 PM
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I do own a 2 1/2 year old golden from Amica as a pet. The breeder, Mia, is wonderful. She doesn't breed just to sell puppies, but mostly for show dogs and to improve the breed. She is very selective about where her puppies go. I found her to be extremely knowledgeable and very strict about her breeding protocol. Our Amica golden has been very healthy so far, no problems at all. She is very smart and extremely affectionate. When our older dog dies, we will definintely go back to Amica for another golden. I highly recommend Amica.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-25-2013, 06:50 AM
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Scion Goldens has gorgeous dogs- I would love to have one someday.

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