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Old 01-06-2013, 02:01 AM
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Golden puppy search

I am looking for a reputable breeder in the northeast that has available pups. Found some beautiful looking dogs at Snow water retrievers in Jamestown pa. They have upcoming litters with Caesar and Ivory and Caesar and Mia. Was hoping that someone could help in deciphering the info. Thank you.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:54 AM
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To be very honest, this website is frightening to me.
The shots of the kennel and the number of dogs is not something I would be comfortable with.
They are big on touting Champions and Champion pedigrees but I don't see them doing anything with these dogs. The rely on championships earned abroad or back in the pedigree as a main selling point.
I always get a little put off by PayPal.
A limited warranty that requires the return of the puppy. Also, an 8 year health gaurentee that is contingent on the food and supplements they require.
They do not coherently speak about clearances at all. It seems that they imply clearances with really odd abbreviations. I found very limited clearance information across the board. She has a link directly to the GRCA on her site, so she should know that all breeding dogs should have the core four (eyes-OFA or CERF annually, heart-by a cardiologist after 12 months, hips and elbows done after 24 months). Here is what I found out on these dogs:

Golden Romance Star Blaze (Caesear) JR703857zr HD-E, Elbo-E eyes-clear
No verifiable Clearances. Her abbreviations suggest OFA excellent hips and excellent elbows. If he had OFA clearances they would be online they are not and "excellent" rating does not apply to elbows at all. The eyes I could not verify, but she could have the hard copy form. No mention of heart clearence.
Strong Stale Andrew Jacob (Ranger) RFK 2058341 SR450008203 HD-G
Her abbreviations suggest OFA good hips and he does. He does not have an elbow clearance which means he was either never tested or tested and failed. If he had OFA clearances for elbows they would be online they are not. No mention of heart or eye clearances.
Pink Panter (Hemmi) JR 701413 ZR H-F
Her abbreviations suggest OFA fair hips and they are. He does not have an elbow clearance which means he was either never tested or tested and failed. If he had OFA elbow clearances they would be online they are not. No mention of heart or eye clearances.


Irish Magic Diana (Dancy) JR77926Zr HD-A, ED-O
No verifiable clearances. I honestly don't know what her abbreviations mean. They might be for clearances that where done abroad. If they are and the bitch is producing in the US I would expect to see her retested to obtain the clearances used by the GRCA code of ethics. If she had OFA clearances they would be online they are not. No mention of heart or eye clearances.
New Moon Dreamer (Dreamer) SR59303802 OFA-E
No verifiable clearances. Her abbreviations suggest OFA excellent hips. If she had OFA clearances they would be online they are not. No mention of heart or eye clearances.
May Sunflower Sunny (Siera) JR702002Zr SR62537602 HDP-G
Her abbreviation suggests OFA good hips. In reality this girl does have OFA normal elbows and OFA fair hips. So, the information is at best unclear. No verifiable eye or heart info. If the breeder has those in hard copy form and she was bread to a boy with full clearances then maybe this bitch would be a good choice for the dam of a litter.
Indiana Dancing Lady (Keita) RFK2058355 SR45016103 OFA-G
The abbreviation suggests OFA good hips and she does. She does not have an elbow clearance which means she was either never tested or tested and failed. Again no mention of heart or eye clearances.
Ivory
No mention of clearances and I could not find any. I can not even tell how old this girl is. It seems her mother was born 10/16/2009. Assuming that she was not breed until two (which is the commonly accepted age of maturity in the US and when hip and elbow clearances can be achieved) Ivory would be about a year old now and is having puppies at the end of the month.
Silvermines Sweet Mia (Mia) SR65704306 HD-Good Elbows-Excellent
The abbreviation suggests OFA good hips and excellent elbows which is not an elbow grade. She just turned 2 on Christmas and is due to have puppies on February 4th. So, she was bred before she turned two and could get her clearances. I would guess that the information listed is likely from prelims which are not clearances and should not be represented as such. If she had OFA clearances they would be online or showing online shortly but, they are not there now. Again no mention of heart or eye clearances.
Silvermines Mercedes (Mercedes) SR65704208 HD-Fair Elbows-excellent
The abbreviation suggests OFA fair hips and excellent elbows which is not an elbow grade. She just turned 2 on Christmas. So, I would guess that the information listed is likely from prelims which are not clearances and should not be represented as such. If she had OFA clearances they would be online or showing online shortly but, they are not there now. Again no mention of heart or eye clearances.
Un-named bitch
The last pictures are of a girl with no name listed. So, she is completely unverifiable.

Based on the lack of clearances and my above mentioned concerns, this is a situation I would walk away from. Based on the prices they display on the available page, you can do much, much better with a reputable breeder.

Are you specifically looking for a very light golden?
Specifically what parts of the Northeast are you willing to go to?
Is Canada an option?

Please read the stickies in the choosing a breeder/puppy section. I would also recommended app getting familiar with the following research sites
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
CERF Registry/Breeder Options Lookup
Hip and Elbow Dysplasia Evaluation | Ontario Veterinary College | University of Guelph. (Program discontinued but valuable for historical data of Canadian dogs)
K9DATA.COM Home Page (Pedigree research tool. Like wiki so the users enter the info. You need to verify clearance info listed with a trusted source)

When you find a potential breeder or puppy parents, post them in the forum and we can help double check your research.
__________________

Laura, Jinx, Tilt and Cozy
BIS UKC CH IntCH Wildfire's A Kind of Magic CGC
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=474956
MRBIS UKC CH Wildfire's Pinball Whiz at Anasazi
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=550691
Rocky the Min Pin who thinks he's a Golden at the Bridge
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:14 AM
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The breeder states that American and English Goldens are two different breeds on their website. They are either misinformed, or are deliberately trying to mislead the public.

Ask them if they have evidence to back up their claims in # 2 & #3.

From the breeder website:

What kind of Dog is this?

(...)

The English began breeding the lightest of their Golden Retrievers. After many decades of select breeding this beautiful animal evolved into the "English Cream Golden Retriever" we love today. Although the English Goldens have the same wonderful personality that American Goldens have, There are several significant differences between the breeds. The English Cream Golden Retrievers are renowned for
#1 Their Beautiful Creamy White Silky Soft Coat.
#2 The English Golden does NOT carry the Lymphoma Cancer Gene that has plagued Golden Retrievers for years.
#3 English Golden Retrievers are healthier and live longer than the American Golden Retriever.
#4 * The Breed Standards for American Kennel Club and The English Kennel Clubs do differ with the English Retriever being of a blockier build.

(...)

Home - SnowWater-Retrievers.com
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:29 AM
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They are just Golden Retrievers not 'English Creams' and the UK doesn't breed Goldens to make them lighter in colour!! Light (anything else than golden cream through to rich golden) does not meet the UK Kennel Club standard. White or very light retrievers are not the desired look for the breed here in Britain (note: Britain not England). Although Golden Retrievers that are white or very light in colour (I choose my words carefully) are very nice I'm sure - they are still just a Golden retriever (not an English Cream) - you're being had.

And... Once again, the dog originated in Scotland and is bred all over the British Isles - it is not an English breed but either a Scottish one or a British one.


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Old 01-06-2013, 07:33 AM
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AND, a British blood stock GR is no less susceptible to illness than an American blood stock GR


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Old 01-06-2013, 08:08 AM
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If you're looking for a lighter puppy, Huntcrest in Ohio will be having a litter sired by Kobe that will be pretty light and gorgeous too.


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Old 01-06-2013, 10:53 AM
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The Silvermines dogs that they have would raise a red flag for me. They have been discussed extensively on this forum. Do a forum search on them.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:11 AM
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Thank you everyone. I've definitely been learning a lot over these past few weeks.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:16 AM
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"Are you specifically looking for a very light golden?
Specifically what parts of the Northeast are you willing to go to?
Is Canada an option?

Please read the stickies in the choosing a breeder/puppy section. I would also recommended app getting familiar with the following research sites
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
CERF Registry/Breeder Options Lookup
Hip and Elbow Dysplasia Evaluation | Ontario Veterinary College | University of Guelph. (Program discontinued but valuable for historical data of Canadian dogs)
K9DATA.COM Home Page (Pedigree research tool. Like wiki so the users enter the info. You need to verify clearance info listed with a trusted source)

When you find a potential breeder or puppy parents, post them in the forum and we can help double check your research.[/QUOTE]


I'm looking for a dog with a blockier build...not necessarily a pale golden. I just happened upon that website when a did a breeder search. I'm looking all over. Would prefer to be in driving distance, but I understand people will ship.

Last edited by belindam; 01-06-2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason: didn't quote correctly
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:18 AM
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If Canada is an option, there are certainly a lot of the english type golden retrievers in Ontario.
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