Conquerorgold, thanks for your comments. As I've been following this thread I've been thinking that the mystery person is looking for a dog that would perform like a great Golden but not have the Golden temperament. For me the temperament is the best aspect of the Goldens.

As an aside, if I had the requisite ability and wanted to train a dog for top level obedience and had the resources to go anywhere to get the best, I'd be getting thoroughly involved in the search myself rather than looking to others to identify the alternatives. Something about all of this doesn't square up for me.

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Zoe, Rockwall Nantucket Breeze, BN, CGC, Delta therapy dog
Zeke, our introduction to the world of Golden Retrievers

To some extent she is seeing Goldens doing so well (and typically winning) in obedience trials due to their precision and since she wants to do well in obedience she is looking into Goldens.

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Carolyn (A.K.A. Aunt Care) and

Creekwood Tanglefoot Selchie CD, RN, AX, AXJ, CGC, CCA, (A.K.A. Selli-Belle) Golden

Valentine Byrd McDuff (A.K.A. Duffy) Golden/Sheltie

Tanglefoot Autumn Dexter CGC (My Heart Dog at the Bridge) Golden

Them goldens are doing so well, because they are paired with the right people. I prefer a drivey dog, and know I would have a ton of fun with a border collie, and have considered them many times, but everytime I go back to goldens, because I love how social, and cuddly they are.

If she finds the right breed for her, and does a good job training it, and has a strong bond with the dog, I am sure she will do great no matter what breed she gets.

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Susan

UCD URO1 HighRoller Fast Track Filly CDX, RN, CGC
River Run Absolutely Riveting CDX, RE, CGC
UCD Hot Gold HankyPanky CDX RAE CGC (retired)





"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment." ~Jim Rohn

"Them goldens are doing so well, because they are paired with the right people. I prefer a drivey dog, and know I would have a ton of fun with a border collie, and have considered them many times, but everytime I go back to goldens, because I love how social, and cuddly they are."

This is so very true! I just got my RAE title with my chihuahua this past weekend and she got very high marks from the judge. If you make a great team, you and your dog will go far.

Exactly, Loisiana

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I was replying to Loisiana's description of hard as opposed to soft on the previous page -- a harder dog being one that won't shut down in the face of a correction.

Also, exactly right regarding the titling of the dam.

My friend has quite a bit of sporting group knowledge and owns two Am Cockers, one of whom is very birdy, the other of whom is very affectionate. She appreciates these characteristics in them, just as she appreciates the very different characteristics of her Giant Schnauzer.

As for why she is not on here herself, she's very busy running a rescue, fostering and placing dogs, and I offered to network for her and do more research. Since I have been on here for about 6 months and have been looking for a future (2-3 years) pup myself, I was familiar with several of the kennels, and welcomed more input from the readers of this forum. We have somewhat similar tastes in Goldens, except I couldn't care less about their heads, but I prefer reds! We both like naughty drive-monsters. So if this has all confused or "doesn't add up," I'm sorry. I appreciate the help from everyone.

I am sure that Selli-Belle is correct in that my friend appreciates the precision that Goldens bring to the OB ring.

But my friend also has expressed to me that she loves the sheer joy which no dog but a Golden exudes. And I think you all know what I'd talking about.

She has come to deeply appreciate the Golden character through her interactions with Goldens and their owners, including helping out those whose dogs have passed. She has wide breed knowledge, and does not make breed choices for herself or those adopting from her rescue lightly.

I'm a Golden fiend, of course. I came to Goldens late -- my early twenties -- so I am only on my third, plus a Toller/Golden mix. I'll never be without a Golden myself, I fervently hope, but I am not the sort to push Goldens on everyone who wants a dog. I respect the Golden character and heritage, know the needs and wants of the breed, and would never want a dog to go to a home where he/she would not be appreciated fully. I will say, though, that the suggestion my friend get a BC cracks me up. She's a lot less of a herding group person than I!

One thing I have to say though is that what makes a dog soft as far as level of correction does not necessarily mean that dog is not going to be a great obedience dog? Ideal obedience dogs are those who are immediately receptive to their owner's movements and the mildest and calmest corrections.

I think your friend wants to avoid any dog that will be so muleheaded when it comes to corrections that she has to manhandle them to get through to them.

As far as softness... the real problem isn't the inability of a dog to handle heavy corrections. The real problem is bringing home an unsound or nervous dog who can't handle noises, conflict, stress, or anxiety from their owner.

I know plenty of people who do exactly that...

And I guess a question here is that - will your friend have time to train and work with a puppy in addition to everything else she does? Particularly if prior to bringing that puppy home she couldn't spare the time to talk with breed referrals and interview breeders herself?

Of course - but just keep in mind that the precision and joy which these dogs show in the ring do not always come with the type of dog she was describing on the other forum (which she had time to post on). It all comes down to training what you have and putting a lot of time and work into that dog.

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Always loved, never forgotten, all our previous boys -

Pedigree: MACH UCD UR03 Hi-Top Shawnfield's Rapid Replay UDX OM1 GN GO VER RAE JH MXB MJB NAP NJP XF WC
I'm in love with the whole litter this boy is from. He's been used for several litters this year, looking forward to seeing how they turn out. Also looking forward to seeing what the girls in the litter produce.

They just announced a new Reese litter last night to this Push granddaughter, should be nice.
Pedigree: Sunfire Winthrop Tornado OA, OAJ

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Jodie

AJ's Maiden By the Sea CDX RE (Annabel - retired)
Mud E Paws UDX OM2 RE OBHF (Conner - retired with 28 OTCH points)
Sunfire's Flying Head Over Heels UD BN RA (Flip)
And the odd one of the family - Colby Jack Teeter Smack CDX GO RA (Colby - Lhasa Apso)

Thanks for all your information and help. I hope it did not break some rule for me to ask for help for a friend. This thread has been helpful for me in my breeder search as well. My friend certainly intends to look at breeders herself and inteview them (and be interviewed by them!).

I went to the AKC Eukanuba in Orlando this weekend and watched quite a few of the Goldens in OB. It was so nice to see dogs from breeders I am considering, as well as from kennels of which I hadn't heard. Now I am thinking of going to the Golden specialty next year!