A question to the breeders on the forum

[cgriffin]

First off, I am NOT looking for a pup right now.

Reading through the forum, breeder/puppy sections, I keep reading about the breeders will match the puppy up with the potential owners. Okay.
My question is: Does the potential owner have to pick the pup that the breeder thinks would be a good match? What if it just does not 'click' with the pup and potential owner?

I remember reading Damitas descripiton of each puppy personality on Buddy's Mom Forever's thread and she said, even though she thinks the green pup would be a good match, she would never push a pup on someone.

Does this hold true for the majority of breeders? Or is it more, well you don't like what I picked out for you, take the pup or leave it.

Every time I picked a pup in the past, I got to pick the pup that felt just right and it was perfect every time. Of course, I always told the breeder first, that I am not interested in showing. So, if they put the show pups aside, I would really never know.

When I got Toby, I was promised the pick of the litter, because I had a Golden from the breeder previously and we were in contact. With Toby and me, it was love at first sight.

Sorry to make it so long, but this has really been on my mind.
Thanks in advance for the replies.

[Shalva]

I also would never push a pup on a person but everyone knows from day one that I match pups to people. I repeatedly tell people to get attached to all the pups because they don't know who they are getting. I do consider sex when matching pups but find that with rare exception most people who are adamant about one sex or the other don't care at all once they meet hte puppies... others need to have one sex or another because of other dogs in the house so I do take sex preference into account but beyond that if you find that you don't want the puppy that I have picked for you then I am not going to try and convince you... all it is going to take honestly is for me to get one single sense of disappointment on your part (generic you) and I will hand you back your check and keep the puppy, it is very simple. I am not going to try and convince a person to take a specific puppy, I am not going to try and push a puppy on people... I will just give you back your check and that will be that... Every puppy deserves a family who is happy and excited to have them not one that is disappointed.

A few years ago I had a family who seemed to leaning toward one specific puppy and spending all their time with that one puppy when they were here and I was starting to get the feeling that they would not be happy with any other pup... and I addressed that immediately and let them know that the puppy in question was probably not going to be an option for them and if they were going to be disappointed with anothre pup that I was going to send them back their money and they could find another litter, I would help them find another litter. After a long tearful conversation they said they were not attached and three years later they are a great home and love their pup (not the one they were attached to, he was my show puppy) and all was well...

but yeah honestly with pupppy placements it is kinda "my way or hte highway"

[hvgoldens4]

Why We Choose Your Puppy
Whether sold as a “pet“ or as a “show/breeding prospect” your puppy has been bred from the best breeding stock available and is a product of a great deal of care, research, hard work and love. He/she is a good representative of the breed and is structurally and temperamentally sound. Your puppy is suited to be a wonderful companion for hunting, obedience, agility or therapy work. He/she has received lots of care and socialization from us. We are very proud of the puppies we produce! Our hope is that you enjoy your puppy as much as we enjoy your puppy’s parents. When this happens then we have fulfilled a large part of our goals as breeders.
Most experienced breeders will choose the puppy you get, instead of letting you make the choice. This is NOT because you are getting the “last pick” (which many people worry about), or because we don’t care about what you want. It is because we care a great deal that you get the kind of puppy that will make you happy, and that each puppy goes into the right kind of home for that particular puppy, that we make the choice. Years of experience and the time spent watching them grow up gives us a much better chance of matching puppies to the proper homes. If you want a very quiet puppy, you might visit on the one day that the quietest one is being a terror. Or if you want an extremely “spunky” puppy, you might visit on the one day that the feistiest little munchkin in taking a loooooong snooze or has a belly full of breakfast. I know it’s hard, but try to trust us! Tell us as much as you can about what you want and your lifestyle, and let us do the best we can in choosing the right puppy for you. Our potential families have always been happy with the puppies we have chosen for them.If for some reason you don’t like the puppy we’ve chosen for you, you are under no obligation whatsoever to take him/her home, and we’d prefer you didn’t… No Hard Feelings, your being happy with our golden bundle of fur is of utmost importance to us. Our experience is that you will actually find that it is much easier for us to choose the puppy for you, than it is for you to make the decision for yourself.

#“Pet Quality” vs. “Show Quality”

The differences between pet quality and show quality puppies are not usually obvious to the inexperienced eye. Sometimes there are no differences, as most breeders usually have more pet homes than show homes available for any given litter. And since the grading of puppies is an educated guess, even the very experienced eye is not infallible. Sometimes the difference is something about the bite, the way the puppy moves or stands, an angle of the shoulder blade that we feel in our hands, or that indefinable “something” that makes us guess/hope that “this one is a show puppy.” And sometimes we’re wrong! In any case, if we want to keep something for ourselves to show and/or breed, or if we have show homes available, we take our best shot at picking the best candidates for the job. The rest of the puppies are really the lucky ones! They are the ones that get to go home with you and lie on the sofa and play ball with the kids instead of working for a living. This is why I like to refer to pet dogs as companion dogs. That is there first and most important job..... to be your companion, in your house and on your bed. They have received the same careful breeding and raising, usually look just the same, and sometimes when we see them six months or two years later we wish we’d kept them....... It makes us very proud to have our puppy buyers come back with beautiful dogs that fit the standard and are good representatives of the breed.
#Limited Registration vs. Full Registration
Responsible breeders sell puppies as pets on Limited Registration and spay/neuter contracts. This is out of a sincere concern for the overpopulation of pets and because we believe that breeding should not take place “in a vacuum.” The dogs involved should have something to contribute to the breed, perhaps have distinguished themselves in some way (in conformation, obedience, agility or field work); and the people involved should have educated themselves on the breed standard, health problems in Goldens in general and in the various lines, and be very knowledgeable about raising puppies and in finding and screening good homes for them. We take continuing responsibility for what we produce, and hope that none of our puppies is ever accidentally or carelessly bred.
Limited Registration is a tool offered by the American Kennel Club for responsible breeders to protect their breeding programs and their puppies. Limited Registration is just like “Regular Registration", except that Limited Registration dogs may not be shown in conformation, and their offspring may not be registered with the American Kennel Club. They may be shown in obedience, agility, and hunting tests and can obtain titles in all of those areas.
Limited Registration is reversible to “Full Registration", but only by the breeder of your puppy. If you happen to join a dog club, start going to shows and then get bit by the show bug; Or, perhaps you go to an obedience class where experienced dog people see your dog and exclaim, “He’s gorgeous! This dog must be shown and shared with the world!" We can of course talk about changing the registration to a full registration. We’d like to see your dog, talk to you about conformation classes and made sure you know what you’re getting into if you think you want to even attempt to do this. Dog showing is not for the faint of heart, or those with limited weekend time to travel or money to spend. You should know by the time to have you puppy spayed or neutered whether this show bug has bitten you, and we can consider amending the contract; otherwise you will be expected to fulfill its terms and spay and/or neuter your friendly companion. If you request to have “full registration”, then upon receipt of a letter from your vet on letterhead stationery stating that your puppy has been spayed or neutered, I will change the registration and you will get a new certificate from the AKC with a purple border instead of an orange border. (That’s the only difference for pet dogs.)

[MGMF]

Originally Posted by hvgoldens4

Why We Choose Your Puppy
Whether sold as a “pet“ or as a “show/breeding prospect” your puppy has been bred from the best breeding stock available and is a product of a great deal of care, research, hard work and love. He/she is a good representative of the breed and is structurally and temperamentally sound. Your puppy is suited to be a wonderful companion for hunting, obedience, agility or therapy work. He/she has received lots of care and socialization from us. We are very proud of the puppies we produce! Our hope is that you enjoy your puppy as much as we enjoy your puppy’s parents. When this happens then we have fulfilled a large part of our goals as breeders.
Most experienced breeders will choose the puppy you get, instead of letting you make the choice. This is NOT because you are getting the “last pick” (which many people worry about), or because we don’t care about what you want. It is because we care a great deal that you get the kind of puppy that will make you happy, and that each puppy goes into the right kind of home for that particular puppy, that we make the choice. Years of experience and the time spent watching them grow up gives us a much better chance of matching puppies to the proper homes. If you want a very quiet puppy, you might visit on the one day that the quietest one is being a terror. Or if you want an extremely “spunky” puppy, you might visit on the one day that the feistiest little munchkin in taking a loooooong snooze or has a belly full of breakfast. I know it’s hard, but try to trust us! Tell us as much as you can about what you want and your lifestyle, and let us do the best we can in choosing the right puppy for you. Our potential families have always been happy with the puppies we have chosen for them.If for some reason you don’t like the puppy we’ve chosen for you, you are under no obligation whatsoever to take him/her home, and we’d prefer you didn’t… No Hard Feelings, your being happy with our golden bundle of fur is of utmost importance to us. Our experience is that you will actually find that it is much easier for us to choose the puppy for you, than it is for you to make the decision for yourself.

#“Pet Quality” vs. “Show Quality”

The differences between pet quality and show quality puppies are not usually obvious to the inexperienced eye. Sometimes there are no differences, as most breeders usually have more pet homes than show homes available for any given litter. And since the grading of puppies is an educated guess, even the very experienced eye is not infallible. Sometimes the difference is something about the bite, the way the puppy moves or stands, an angle of the shoulder blade that we feel in our hands, or that indefinable “something” that makes us guess/hope that “this one is a show puppy.” And sometimes we’re wrong! In any case, if we want to keep something for ourselves to show and/or breed, or if we have show homes available, we take our best shot at picking the best candidates for the job. The rest of the puppies are really the lucky ones! They are the ones that get to go home with you and lie on the sofa and play ball with the kids instead of working for a living. This is why I like to refer to pet dogs as companion dogs. That is there first and most important job..... to be your companion, in your house and on your bed. They have received the same careful breeding and raising, usually look just the same, and sometimes when we see them six months or two years later we wish we’d kept them....... It makes us very proud to have our puppy buyers come back with beautiful dogs that fit the standard and are good representatives of the breed.
#Limited Registration vs. Full Registration
Responsible breeders sell puppies as pets on Limited Registration and spay/neuter contracts. This is out of a sincere concern for the overpopulation of pets and because we believe that breeding should not take place “in a vacuum.” The dogs involved should have something to contribute to the breed, perhaps have distinguished themselves in some way (in conformation, obedience, agility or field work); and the people involved should have educated themselves on the breed standard, health problems in Goldens in general and in the various lines, and be very knowledgeable about raising puppies and in finding and screening good homes for them. We take continuing responsibility for what we produce, and hope that none of our puppies is ever accidentally or carelessly bred.
Limited Registration is a tool offered by the American Kennel Club for responsible breeders to protect their breeding programs and their puppies. Limited Registration is just like “Regular Registration", except that Limited Registration dogs may not be shown in conformation, and their offspring may not be registered with the American Kennel Club. They may be shown in obedience, agility, and hunting tests and can obtain titles in all of those areas.
Limited Registration is reversible to “Full Registration", but only by the breeder of your puppy. If you happen to join a dog club, start going to shows and then get bit by the show bug; Or, perhaps you go to an obedience class where experienced dog people see your dog and exclaim, “He’s gorgeous! This dog must be shown and shared with the world!" We can of course talk about changing the registration to a full registration. We’d like to see your dog, talk to you about conformation classes and made sure you know what you’re getting into if you think you want to even attempt to do this. Dog showing is not for the faint of heart, or those with limited weekend time to travel or money to spend. You should know by the time to have you puppy spayed or neutered whether this show bug has bitten you, and we can consider amending the contract; otherwise you will be expected to fulfill its terms and spay and/or neuter your friendly companion. If you request to have “full registration”, then upon receipt of a letter from your vet on letterhead stationery stating that your puppy has been spayed or neutered, I will change the registration and you will get a new certificate from the AKC with a purple border instead of an orange border. (That’s the only difference for pet dogs.)

Well said Harborview:

I know I spend the entire 8 weeks with my puppies. I may not hand them a puppy without an option but I sure think my part of matching the puppy to a good home is the best way for them to be successful. I will take my pups back at anytime of their life but it is not my intention. I want them to be in a home where they will live out their life with the family that is best for them. I think this may be the process that applies to many good breeders. There is no way a moment, a look, the color means they are the best match.

This puppy matching is only for the breeders who truly spend time with their pups vs. kennel babies with limited socialization. This would not apply to the breeders who does not let you visit and basically will only hand a pup at the door or will deliver. If no one spends time with them then your best guess is as good as any. Personally that is not the kind of puppy I would want.

[sterregold]

Excellent posts. My puppy people are in essentially the same situation--they are in the loop about the process from the get go, so if that is something they are not comfortable with then I tell them that I am probably not the best fit for them as a breeder. My people have generally reported that I matched them with what they were after behaviour and personality wise. I did have one family in Butch's litter who fell in love with him, but I let them know right away he was not going to be their baby as he was my keeper! The irony is that they have now become active with the club and are doing obedience with their boy, and I am showing him in conformation, and he has all of his clearances, whereas Butch ended up with a condition in one eye that keeps him from getting that clearance. So while my guy is titled and beautiful I am not going to be able to use him in my breeding program, but I will be able to use the one I placed! Luckily I knew they were experienced and devoted folks, so I did feel comfortable in putting my 2nd pick with them.

The only time I generally let the puppy people have more of a say is when it is an experienced person in the breed looking for a performance pick. Then we are going to work together to get the best pup for them based on the temperament testing they do, and the temperament testing I have done by a top obed person in my area whose opnions I trust.

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by sterregold

The only time I generally let the puppy people have more of a say is when it is an experienced person in the breed looking for a performance pick. Then we are going to work together to get the best pup for them based on the temperament testing they do, and the temperament testing I have done by a top obed person in my area whose opnions I trust.

I agree .... this is what I do ... I let one experienced performance person who had visited on several occasions choose her puppy but honestly it is the exact puppy I would have matched her with. We talked about it together I told her my recommendations but ultimately let her pick, but we were on the same page. Pet homes I always pick... that is just how it goes

[damita]

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had the breeder pick their puppy for them and NOT fall in love? I hear so much about wanting to "bond" or "click" with their puppy but don't understand how you couldn't bond with ANY dog or puppy

[cgriffin]

Thanks for your responses, very interesting!

I learned a lot.

[kfayard]

Originally Posted by damita

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had the breeder pick their puppy for them and NOT fall in love? I hear so much about wanting to "bond" or "click" with their puppy but don't understand how you couldn't bond with ANY dog or puppy

I know when I was buying Remi, the breeder told me she picks. To be honest, I was upset by this and I just did not understand. I could not get past paying almost $2,000 for a dog and not get to pick my puppy. The breeder knew what I wanted and I was new to the breed. But, when I got to her house...all of the puppies looked sooo much alike (to my untrained eye at the time) there was NO WAY I could have picked. SO, she picked and I am so grateful she did!! Now I have her CH/JH on her and I have made the breeder proud.

[Claudia M]

I am a dog lover period but we always picked our pups. Well the last one was an 8 week old mutt we picked on the side of the road - I guess he picked us. He was part border collie part golden retriever and stubborn like a border collie but I loved him and love him still.
With Rose we had the first pick of the litter - we know the breeder and spent lots of time together. While we were set on a boy we got a girl. While we were going to wait for the medium to dark goldens we got the white one. I simply fell in love with Rose's mom and in a few months decided I had to have one of her first pups.
I do not have it in me to show or compete - it may be an excuse but running a business and raising a family does not leave much room for dog shows. However I am actively training the dog (hopefully dogs in the near future) with my husband's help and only interested in hunting and field training. Yeah - we always laugh that we will have to camouflage Rose when she starts hunting. If things change or the pup shows great hunt train-ability and instinct I might consider couple tries.
Frankly I am no expert but in order for a breeder to be able to match the person with a pup, that breeder will have to know the buyers pretty darn well. And if that is the case I think most times the pup the purchaser gets attached to is the one he/she gets and noone cries or gets disappointed.
When we got Rose we had two pups in mind - her and her brother. I sincerely don't know if I would have picked another pup if either of the two were not available.
All I can say I love Rose to death and loved her from the first day I laid eyes on her.