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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Since the AKC insisted on making the CGC a title rather than a certificate, it does need to have some consistent rules about what is and is not passing behavior.
Do you mean more specific guidelines about what constitutes a passing or failing behavior? I agree that the current guidelines are sometimes a bit unclear on exactly what the dog has to show in order to pass the item.

That said, the CGC exams I've been at have not passed dogs who behaved inappropriately on any test items.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:48 AM
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Honestly, I don't get what the big deal is with the CGC. It's a certificate.. It doesn't matter what it says on paper if your dog's temperament is not up to par. Does passing the CGC give your dog any special privileges? The therapy dog evaluation should definitely be given when the dog is an adult and then retested because they are going to be in situations where the temperament of a dog really does matter. The CGC is a just an exam that you pass and might not pass the next day depending on the circumstances. It is not a very thorough exam. The dog is not going into therapy work with a CGC. I guess when the owner of the dog believes no other training is needed after passing then there is a problem.
I've heard of many uses for the CGC, including insurance only covering "dangerous breeds" if they have a CGC, or housing only allowing dog's who have passed.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:54 AM
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I've definitely used my guys' CGCs as selling points when I'm trying to persuade vacation rentals that don't allow dogs that they should make an exception for mine. Between that, their breed, and the fact that I usually offer a double security deposit, about 75% of them will bend their rules for my boys.

I love the CGC for being a very attainable goal for people like me. It gives you a great set of skills for a companion dog to have, a great goal to structure a class around, and an great benchmark for showing your dog has a stable temperament and solid training.

There's certainly some reform that could help it meet those qualities even better, like more precise rules for passing, tighter restrictions on instructors helping dogs pass, and some other stuff that might rule out manipulation or easy passes for dogs who aren't "good citizens," but overall it's a wonderful program.

I don't see why it's getting converted to a title rather than a certification, since you're not competing against other dogs for it nor asking a dog to perform under the same kinds of conditions that they have to in shows and trials, but I'm also not complaining about having "titled" dogs.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
I don't see why it's getting converted to a title rather than a certification, since you're not competing against other dogs for it nor asking a dog to perform under the same kinds of conditions that they have to in shows and trials, but I'm also not complaining about having "titled" dogs.
Remember in most obedience you are not competing against other dogs ... sure there are placements but a qualifying score is a qualifying score regardless of whether you get a placement or not.. only in OTCH's and a few others are you actually competing against anyone else...

I think the title allows the CGC to be recognized at the end of a dogs name and encourages people to go on once they see those letters... CGC to BN to CD to GN to CDX they are trying to make the steps smaller and more attainable and raise money... if you want the title of CGC you need to pay like 15 bucks
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
I've definitely used my guys' CGCs as selling points when I'm trying to persuade vacation rentals that don't allow dogs that they should make an exception for mine. Between that, their breed, and the fact that I usually offer a double security deposit, about 75% of them will bend their rules for my boys.

I love the CGC for being a very attainable goal for people like me. It gives you a great set of skills for a companion dog to have, a great goal to structure a class around, and an great benchmark for showing your dog has a stable temperament and solid training.

There's certainly some reform that could help it meet those qualities even better, like more precise rules for passing, tighter restrictions on instructors helping dogs pass, and some other stuff that might rule out manipulation or easy passes for dogs who aren't "good citizens," but overall it's a wonderful program.

I don't see why it's getting converted to a title rather than a certification, since you're not competing against other dogs for it nor asking a dog to perform under the same kinds of conditions that they have to in shows and trials, but I'm also not complaining about having "titled" dogs.
It's getting converted into a title probably so the AKC can make money. It costs more for a title. You can still pay less for the certificate option.

I love the program too; I just don't think there should be an age requirement not allowing puppies to take it. The reason I think that way is because it forces the owner to really work on issues that should be addressed ASAP. All owners should begin training their pups to pass all 10 items starting from day 1.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:37 AM
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I think the potential difficulty of passing the CGC goes up and down over a dog's age. It's certainly easiest with a fully grown and matured dog (barring late-onset health or temperament changes), but with my guys, it would probably have been easier in the 6-9 month period than in the 15-20 month period. So I think there's a drop in difficulty from 8 weeks (essentially impossible) to about 9 months (potentially doable, depending on the dog), and then the difficulty graph starts going back up, peaks during the adolescent phase, and then drops off after that.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:58 AM
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My Samantha got her CGC at around seven months. She would still pass today. Her brother, George, flunked the first time, would still pass today. In fact both dogs still get passing scores in the obedience ring at 10.5 years. As I look at all of my dogs with CGC's, they would still pass regardless as they are not any less trained.

I do agree, that with maturity comes the real temperament that you will see... But in a golden, especially, you are not going to get a dog that goes from having a terrific temperament to being a freak.

Personally, I hold more value in real obedience titles, not rally, not CGC. The CGC to me is a stepping stone to further learning....and titles.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:12 PM
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Personally, I hold more value in real obedience titles, not rally, not CGC. The CGC to me is a stepping stone to further learning....and titles.
Me too, though some folks will say that CGC is harder to get than a CD. Not having gotten a CD, I don't yet have an opinion on the subject.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
I think the potential difficulty of passing the CGC goes up and down over a dog's age. It's certainly easiest with a fully grown and matured dog (barring late-onset health or temperament changes), but with my guys, it would probably have been easier in the 6-9 month period than in the 15-20 month period. So I think there's a drop in difficulty from 8 weeks (essentially impossible) to about 9 months (potentially doable, depending on the dog), and then the difficulty graph starts going back up, peaks during the adolescent phase, and then drops off after that.
Molly would not have passed at 6-9 months for sure. She was a jumper and we only got that under control literally one week before the exam at 10.5 months... It does depend on the dog and what their "weaknesses" are because for Molly it was over excited greetings with strangers.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhuynh2 View Post
Also, a male giant breed who matures way later than other dogs...
Physically, yes. But I think all males mature mentally at about the same rate...late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
It's obviously really complicated, so I wouldn't take a fearful adult as proof, per se, that the dog had below-average stability of temperament, but I think one of the defining characteristics of "good temperament" is that the dog is relatively durable in the face of bad experiences—
You know, you actually made me think differently of Chance's temperament because of this post. He shies away from anything/anyone new, but has a great disposition. When we first had him he was in a lot of pain because his previous owners didn't have him on any pain meds for his ED. He could hardly put any weight on his right leg.

On the first night with us he was sleeping in our living room and my daughter was dancing around in there. Well, she tripped and fell right on top of his bad leg. He woke up startled and went limping into the other room. It must have been so painful for him, yet he didn't snap at her or anything like that. My daughter started crying and Chance heard her. He immediately came over to her and kissed her face.

So even though he would never pass the CGC, I do believe his temperament is wonderful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhuynh2 View Post
It's getting converted into a title probably so the AKC can make money...I just don't think there should be an age requirement not allowing puppies to take it...
I don't think anyone said that puppies shouldn't be allowed to take it, only that it may not give a clear indication of the dog's adult temperament. And if it's to make money for the AKC, (which I agree it probably is), then maybe there should be different tests for different ages and the title is only given to the dog when the adult age appropriate test is passed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally's Mom View Post
I do agree, that with maturity comes the real temperament that you will see... But in a golden, especially, you are not going to get a dog that goes from having a terrific temperament to being a freak.
But you could very well have this happen in a Working Breed. Maybe not a "freak", but definitely there could be some changes.
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