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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DanaRuns View Post
In the conformation ring, I have occasionally seen Golden handlers ask the judge if it's okay if the handler opens the dogs mouth rather than having the judge do it. I presume that's so the dog doesn't bite the judge!
I've always thought it was due to not spreading disease. I wouldn't want a judge's hand in my dog's mouth if he just got through putting his hand in a lot of other dogs' mouths. Now I'm curious...
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kwhit View Post
I've always thought it was due to not spreading disease. I wouldn't want a judge's hand in my dog's mouth if he just got through putting his hand in a lot of other dogs' mouths. Now I'm curious...
Oh, good point! I hadn't even thought of that.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:53 PM
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Oh it's definitely for disease prevention
I can't imagine anyone showing a golden that wouldn't allow a judge to look at their teeth.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:06 PM
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But isn't the CGC partly a test for a dog's acceptance of strangers and their tolerance of being handled by people they don't know? I would think that falls under temperament, or at least their demeanor. In the conformation ring, when a judge has to go over the dog, if that dog snaps or shows aggression, that dog would be excused because of an undesirable temperament, right?

I know Chance wouldn't pass the CGC because he is fearful of new situations and that is his temperament. So, to me, it seems as if it could be somewhat of a temperament test of the dog's ability to handle new situations and people.
I'm not an expert, but I would think if a dog suddenly exhibits these behaviors, a traumatic experience must have occurred, or there is a health problem to blame. I don't think that if a dog is used to meeting and being handled by strangers will suddenly develop aggression towards them for no reason at all. If it is truly in their temperament, there would be some indication when they were younger that they don't like strangers or being handled.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:34 PM
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I'm not an expert, but I would think if a dog suddenly exhibits these behaviors, a traumatic experience must have occurred, or there is a health problem to blame. I don't think that if a dog is used to meeting and being handled by strangers will suddenly develop aggression towards them for no reason at all. If it is truly in their temperament, there would be some indication when they were younger that they don't like strangers or being handled.
I've known quite a few dogs that as they matured, they became much more leery of strangers than they were as puppies without any traumatic experiences or health issues. Maybe hormones? I don't know why, but it happens. I know that Pits, if they're going to, generally come into being DA at around 2-3 years of age. So changes in temperament do happen without any outside circumstances. Maybe not often, but it happens.

As for happening suddenly, I don't really think that happens too often. IMO, It's usually due to the fact that most people have no idea how to read a dog's body language. Most of the time there have been a ton of signals being given by the dog that owners just don't pick up on. Then finally the dogs snaps when their signals have been ignored and everyone thinks it happened suddenly.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kwhit View Post
I've known quite a few dogs that as they matured, they became much more leery of strangers than they were as puppies without any traumatic experiences or health issues. Maybe hormones? I don't know why, but it happens. I know that Pits, if they're going to, generally come into being DA at around 2-3 years of age. So changes in temperament do happen without any outside circumstances. Maybe not often, but it happens.

As for happening suddenly, I don't really think that happens too often. IMO, It's usually due to the fact that most people have no idea how to read a dog's body language. Most of the time there have been a ton of signals being given by the dog that owners just don't pick up on. Then finally the dogs snaps when their signals have been ignored and everyone thinks it happened suddenly.
I think all puppies will become less enthusiastic to meet strangers when they get older. But as for leeriness or fearfulness (if not caused by an external factor), I think the pup would display shyness and/or a lack of confidence as a precursor to these behaviors, and then didn't receive the appropriate socialization as a puppy to mature into a confident adult. Maybe not, I don't know.

As for hormones, Molly took the test after her first heat.. So she is sexually mature... Or almost is?

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Old 11-28-2012, 04:57 PM
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In goldens I haven't seen a calm, outgoing puppy turn into a fearful, timid adult. But I have certainly seen a slightly hesitant puppy turn into a fearful, timid adult.
You do seem to see more changes in their attitudes toward other dogs rather than toward people. I've seen a LOT of people blame their dog's sudden change of attitude toward other dogs on an event, when it probably has more to do with maturity than anything else. A well socialized, genetiacally sound dog can take a lot of strange events (including being attacked by another dog) in stride. Not saying that there are no events that will cause them to become different, just that a sound dog can really take a lot with no changes in personality.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 05:12 PM
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In goldens I haven't seen a calm, outgoing puppy turn into a fearful, timid adult. But I have certainly seen a slightly hesitant puppy turn into a fearful, timid adult.
You do seem to see more changes in their attitudes toward other dogs rather than toward people.
Those are two really good points. I've seen attitude changes in Goldens toward other dogs, not people. But...I've seen it in Danes with both people and/or other dogs. One of mine included. He was socialized tremendously, actually went to work with me every day for the first 8 months or so. I worked in a pet store and different people came in every day. He loved everyone. Then he progressively got more and more leery of people, (maybe starting around 11 months old), until he was unpredictable. I worked with him a lot, but he never really got back to how he when he was younger.

If he had taken the CGC test before he was about a year old he would have passed. After that, not a chance.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 05:50 PM
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Honestly, I don't get what the big deal is with the CGC. It's a certificate.. It doesn't matter what it says on paper if your dog's temperament is not up to par. Does passing the CGC give your dog any special privileges? The therapy dog evaluation should definitely be given when the dog is an adult and then retested because they are going to be in situations where the temperament of a dog really does matter. The CGC is a just an exam that you pass and might not pass the next day depending on the circumstances. It is not a very thorough exam. The dog is not going into therapy work with a CGC. I guess when the owner of the dog believes no other training is needed after passing then there is a problem.

Last edited by Vhuynh2; 11-28-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 05:51 PM
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There's also the possibility of thyroid issues cropping up later in life, which can change behavior—particularly attitude towards strangers and other new experiences—dramatically.
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