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post #41 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 08:06 AM
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I did a CCA on Tito after he was already a CH, and it was fascinating. I learned a ton of stuff about him, especially for future breeding, that I never would have learned just in the show ring. When bitches' owners call me to discuss his strengths and weaknesses, I am able to honestly and objectively discuss whether he will compliment their bitch and their breeding intentions.
That said, I have seen a few dogs pass a CCA that barely resemble goldens. I think some of the evaluators just hate to "fail" anyone. They give a 75 rather than fail the dog....
Also, the temperament test part of the CCA is a total joke. Just letting 3 dogs wander around, on leash, for a couple seconds isn't really a temperament test.



CH Rosewood Little Giant, VCD2 UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP TD DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

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Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #42 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:39 AM
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HVG..

Awesome, that answered my questions. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out.
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post #43 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 12:53 PM
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This is so interesting! I had never heard of the CCA. What a great learning tool for anyone interested in learning more about the Golden standard and also how it applies to their own dogs. They should have this with every breed.

I also had a question on the CGC. Why are such young dogs allowed to get it? Is there an age limit? I would think that it would be better to get it when your dog is older because to me, that would make for a better and more honest evaluation. Am I off base on this? I've always thought that most dogs come into their personality as they get older and personalities can sometimes change. If you test a really young dog, is that a true evaluation of their adult temperament or do they have to re-test to get the title? I've always been curious about this.

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post #44 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:34 PM
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Karen, I totally agree about the CGC, and also the evaluations for therapy dogs which are done at 1 year of age. The dogs should need to be "re-evaluated" every year, or at the very least, every-other-year, as their temperaments do differ over time.



CH Rosewood Little Giant, VCD2 UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP TD DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #45 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Karen, I totally agree about the CGC, and also the evaluations for therapy dogs which are done at 1 year of age. The dogs should need to be "re-evaluated" every year, or at the very least, every-other-year, as their temperaments do differ over time.
Is the CGC really a temperament test though? I thought of it as a training test. If a young puppy doesn't pass, most people will say because they are not mature enough and not very well trained yet.. it doesn't say anything about their temperament. Molly just got hers at 10 months. We may or may not retake it in the future. Regardless, we will be training for a long, long time. Those who plan on not doing any training after the CGC should probably wait until their dog is an adult to take the test. But for dogs in ongoing training, I don't see a problem with taking the test as a puppy. And, some competitive obedience trainers require passing the CGC as a prerequisite. Our trainer doesn't require it, but the class was really cheap and less than a mile away, so why not? I needed to get Molly's jumping under control, and I did, and we passed the test at the end of the course. Is there anything wrong with that? And since we ARE continuing training, I will not believe for one second that Molly might not be able to pass as an adult.

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post #46 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Karen, I totally agree about the CGC, and also the evaluations for therapy dogs which are done at 1 year of age. The dogs should need to be "re-evaluated" every year, or at the very least, every-other-year, as their temperaments do differ over time.
Delta(Pet Partners) does require retesting every two years for participants in their therapy dog program and dogs under a certain age (1 year I think) are not eligible to participate. I think Delta is pretty unique in the retest requirement.


Gracie, Sunfire's Amazing Grace, CGC, CCA, Pet Partner therapy dog, 9/12/2013
Zoe, Rockwall Nantucket Breeze, BN, CGC, Delta therapy dog, 5/4/2008 - 10/28/2013
Zeke, our introduction to the world of Golden Retrievers, 6/12/1997 - 12/18/2007
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post #47 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 06:50 AM
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Sorry, the way I lumped the CGC and the Therapy dog tests together it appeared that I meant they are both temperament tests, and you are right, the CGC test is not at all.
I didn't know the Delta Society required re-testing. Kudos to them!!! I haven't seen the goldens' temperaments change as much as some other breeds, but around 3 years old you see the "adult temperament" and evaluating dogs before that, without re-evaluating them, seems like poor practice.



CH Rosewood Little Giant, VCD2 UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP MFP T2BP TD DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG (born 3-10-2007), also UCH HR UH UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT a.k.a. "Tito" (the Tito Monster)

waiting at the bridge:
My first dog, and my most special girl
Gibson's Golden Girl, CD, CGC, TDI ( 3-20-1997 - 11-22-2013) a.k.a. "Tiny", "Queen B"
and my heart dog
Gibson's Golden Guy, CD, CGC, TDI ( 01-31-1998 - 01-02-2012) a.k.a. "Toby", "HRH"
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post #48 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
Sorry, the way I lumped the CGC and the Therapy dog tests together it appeared that I meant they are both temperament tests, and you are right, the CGC test is not at all.
But isn't the CGC partly a test for a dog's acceptance of strangers and their tolerance of being handled by people they don't know? I would think that falls under temperament, or at least their demeanor. In the conformation ring, when a judge has to go over the dog, if that dog snaps or shows aggression, that dog would be excused because of an undesirable temperament, right?

I know Chance wouldn't pass the CGC because he is fearful of new situations and that is his temperament. So, to me, it seems as if it could be somewhat of a temperament test of the dog's ability to handle new situations and people.

Karen, Chance, Lucy and Savanah (RB)

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post #49 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 01:05 PM
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I feel the same way about conformation shows. What good does it do to give a Champion title to a puppy, when you haven't seen the finished result. Just because they're great as puppies doesn't mean it will hold true as an adult. I know in some breeds where being oversized is a big concern, people are getting their dogs out as soon as they turn six months, trying to get a CH before they have a chance to grow over standard.

Jodie

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Mud E Paws UDX OM2 RE OBHF (Conner) 2004-2015
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Sunfire's Ashes To Gold CD PCD BN RN WC (Phoenix) 2013-2016 - Forever my baby angel
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post #50 of 117 (permalink) Old 11-28-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kwhit View Post
In the conformation ring, when a judge has to go over the dog, if that dog snaps or shows aggression, that dog would be excused because of an undesirable temperament, right?
You reminded me of something I've wondered about, and I hope someone here has the expertise to teach me.

In the conformation ring, I have occasionally seen Golden handlers ask the judge if it's okay if the handler opens the dogs mouth rather than having the judge do it. I presume that's so the dog doesn't bite the judge! The times I have seen that it confounded me, because a Golden shouldn't pose any risk, and I would think the mere request by the handler would make the judge reluctant to put up that dog. But if the judge can't examine the dog herself, shouldn't that dog be excused?
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