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Old 11-23-2012, 12:49 PM
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Too many breeders, or not enough?

There is no shortage of dogs in the world, and no shortage of Goldens. Yet, it can be very hard to find a good quality Golden puppy. What do you think: is the breed and the world better served by having more people becoming hobby breeders, or are there enough (or too many) already?

Issues I'm thinking of are quality of the breed, number of unwanted dogs, overall number of dogs, ease of finding a quality puppy, price of a good puppy, and future of the breed.

Your opiinions please!
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:00 PM
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I know I have been trying to research reputable Great Pyrenees breeders. I know some of the names of them from actually meeting them at dog shows, but unfortunately they do not have a presence on the internet. I am thinking these days we rely on the internet for most of our searches of things, that we forget that there are many that have not gone in that direction, so there are probably many out there, that we don't know about. We have to remember that breeders are not a business. They breed first for themselves and to improve the breed, so for most of them, advertising is not important.

I also think there is a shortage of reputable breeders of any breed and too many puppy mills and BYB. It may feel frustrating and unfortunately it does make it difficult at times to "time" when you want to bring a new puppy into your home.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:01 PM
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HMMMM...well that's a conundrum and perhaps a loaded question.


Honestly I think there are enough breeders, just not enough doing it right...and that encompasses many area's not just the clearances etc...but that is not a discussion I am going to get into as it is bound to take this post to places best not gone...
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:15 PM
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WAY too many hobby breeders! All that happens when people breed dogs because "they can" or want they experience is creating more and more possibly badly bred, unwanted dogs.

Also, while its great to be able to afford a dog at a lower price, when backyard/hobby breeders sell their pups (who are likely not exemplifying the breed standard and has not health certs)and the price of a dog is set as so anyone can afford it you wind up with someone that has not invested a lot into an animal and is therefore subject to "giving up" or deciding they don't want it down the road. When dogs are so readily available and at low quality where the bad breeding can continue you don't know if the purchaser is really serious about being a dog owner.

I've seen people buy a hobby bred dog because it was cheap and appeared to have good breeding but they decide down the road that the dog is too much and get rid of it either by neglect or surrender. This is the source of overcrowded pounds and dogs continuing to breed with health/breed standard faults.

In my opinion it goes back to hobby breeders and the like. When someone pays a larger sum of money from a reputable breeder then there is a commitment to that animal. I'm sure it still happens but people who invest money into a dog that is breed standard and is healthy, they take care of it not only because they were willing to go into their savings money to pay for it but they decided to go with a good breeder because they actually care about the condition of the dog. Also with many big breeders, the purchaser has to sign a contract saying they will not breed the dog they purchase along with other stipulations. This fixes the chance that the high quality dog is going to a home where it will not be used for breeding and will be cared for.

My beautiful Yukon is the result of this "I bred her because I could" mindset. His Golden mother was left at a pound with 8 four-week old puppies. The owner had surrendered them because quote, "she did not wat them and it was an accident" She had the male and the female golden and she had gotten pregnant. She kept the male and got rid of the mother and the resulting pups. Yukon was one of the pups. Mind you, Yukon is an unbelievably fantastic dog. Smart, beautiful and well-behaved and so far healthy. But what about what happened to the mother and the other 7 malnourished, filthy puppies that were in the pound for weeks? While my intent with Yukon is to pamper and love him until the day he dies,is that the intent of whoever else got the others? Maybe the mother is being used for breeding again because whoever saw her in the pound saw the beautiful puppies she had made...I don't know but yes I think this happens too much because of people who are misinformed about what betters a breed etc. A dog should only be bred if it betters the breed or follows standard.

Yeah, too many breeders :-) Thanks for listening to my rant. haha
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaRuns View Post
What do you think: is the breed and the world better served by having more people becoming hobby breeders, or are there enough (or too many) already?
Loaded question. Golden breeders respecting guidelines do not become pros overnight and have to start somewhere.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:29 PM
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I actually found that it is a lot harder to find a golden at the pound or in a rescue up here. I have been looking for months and found none in rescue for a long time. Most dogs at the pound anymore are pit bull mixes. Not sure why that is. There are very few byb's or even small breeders anymore here breeding goldens. It is actually getting very hard to find a golden well bred or not. We used to see a lot of sled dogs at the pound that didn't make the cut for speed. Now you hardly ever see them either.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cari View Post
WAY too many hobby breeders! All that happens when people breed dogs because "they can" or want they experience is creating more and more possibly badly bred, unwanted dogs....
Perhaps some definition of terms would be helpful.

Years of reading on this Forum have taught me that most people here use the term "hobby breeder" to refer to breeders who work hard to improve the breed, investing in testing and certifications aimed at eliminating inherited diseases and competitions to validate the worth of the dogs. These breeders are not in it for the money and they rarely if ever recoup all of their costs from a litter of puppies.

"Backyard breeders" are people who breed their dogs without knowledge of or interest in the genetic issues. Testing and certifications are often missing and competitions are usually few. These breeders may or may not be making money from their dogs, but they show little regard for the health of the breed as a whole.

"Puppy mills" are only in it for the money, caring little for the dogs or the breed.

Using these definitions, I believe that we don't have enough hobby breeders, but we have way too many backyard breeders and puppy mills. I say this having bought only one dog from a reputable breeder in a lifetime of having them as companions, while my other dogs have come from backyard breeders or animal shelters. I suspect that I have paid far more in veterinary costs and heartache as a result.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:32 PM
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Just want to make a terms clarification. Hobby breeders are the reputable breeders--backyard breeders are not the same as hobby breeders. Small reputable breeders are referred to as hobby breeders because we show, trial, and train, and breed litters for ourselves to continue these activities as a hobby, and for the love of the breed, not to make a living (like large commercial breeders) or some extra spending money (like the BYBs).

Edit note: GOldensGirl you must have been typing while I was!
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska7133 View Post
I actually found that it is a lot harder to find a golden at the pound or in a rescue up here. I have been looking for months and found none in rescue for a long time. Most dogs at the pound anymore are pit bull mixes. Not sure why that is. There are very few byb's or even small breeders anymore here breeding goldens. It is actually getting very hard to find a golden well bred or not. We used to see a lot of sled dogs at the pound that didn't make the cut for speed. Now you hardly ever see them either.
Yes, I found the same thing both in Massachusetts and Missouri.

In MA, I couldn't find any, so that is why I went with a reputable breeder. In MO, after three months of searching, I had to travel over 200 miles to rescue a golden.

There are many goldens listed up for adoption, but many of them do not resemble golden retrievers at all. I can't tell you how many of the had black fur!!
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterregold View Post
Just want to make a terms clarification. Hobby breeders are the reputable breeders--backyard breeders are not the same as hobby breeders. Small reputable breeders are referred to as hobby breeders because we show, trial, and train, and breed litters for ourselves to continue these activities as a hobby, and for the love of the breed, not to make a living (like large commercial breeders) or some extra spending money (like the BYBs).

Edit note: GOldensGirl you must have been typing while I was!

Thank you for clarifying this, I was thinking the same thing but did not know if I was educated enough to speak up.
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