Are there any breeders that ever stipulate in their contracts that even pet puppies be health tested? I had Chance's elbow x-rayed when he was 2.5 years old and at the time went ahead and did his other elbow and also his hips. Are breeders ever curious as to how their pet puppies would test? I would have no issue if I ever bought a puppy with this in it's contract. Just wondering if it's ever done and if it's felt that this would hinder puppy buyers.

__________________
Karen, Chance, Lucy and Savanah RB



“Everyone needs a dog to adore him, and a cat to bring him back to reality”

Wow. On my second reading of your post, this really stuck out. Really? Is this true? Please, do tell me the details. You appear to have information far beyond what other breeders have told me, and what is listed on both the OFA and K-9 Data websites, combined. Please tell me which are the "many other litters out of Ryder where the entire litter failed elbows." This would seem to be stunningly damning, indeed, with regard to Ryder. Ryder sired 72 litters out of 54 separate dams, that I know of. Please identify the "many other litters" where "the entire litter failed elbows."

Wow. I'd think the whole Golden Retriever world would have deafening alarm bells ringing if that were true, considering how many puppies Ryder sired, and how many lines he is now in.

I just have to say it again: Wow. What a damning statement, and defamatory if it's not true.

With Sonny (the sire of this litter), all but one pup in his litter was tested, and all but one of those cleared hips, elbows, heart and eyes. And I've looked at every other litter of Ryder's that I could find. I did find some where no puppies from the litter were tested (and none of them were shown), and I have talked to a number of people who have bred to Ryder, but I did not find any Ryder litters where the "entire litter failed elbows." Having made the statement and raised the issue, if you really do know of "many other litters out of Ryder where the entire litter failed elbows" you should definitely tell me where they are. I'm sure others would like to know, too.

Kwhit, my second golden came from a breeder who required hips and elbows on pups. Of the six in this litter there were many clear elbows and four clear hips. The breeder,her self who was privy to all of our info, did ,not tell us how her pup turned out(didn't show up on OFA and was very vague with me when I questioned her). My girl ended up being mildly unilaterally dysplastic at 44 months. Ideally I would love for people to do rads, but not when they neuter, but at 24 months.

__________________
Janice and The Celebration Gang -
"Samantha, George, Tiki, Emily, Mick and Basil" Gone but not forgotten, Sally(Windjammer's Ima Country Girl CDX CGC), Laney(Mandell Marlenes Celebration UD RA CGC), and Cookie(Starseeker's Kissmas Cookie CDX RE CGC).

Not every breeder posts results to OFA or puts a litter on K9Data. Sometimes asking the breeder before assuming is the key to finding out information.

__________________
Caryn
Proud owner of: Miss Maddie Magoo CD NAP NJP RE CGC

Hi all,

I was forwarded this thread by a friend and it really amazes me how people can be so ignorant when it comes to clearances regarding stud dogs, etc. I am not going to address this one by one because I am short on time but I URGE all of you to contact the breeders/owners/handlers before you make assumptions. Sonny comes from a litter and breeding that have a great success rate of clearances, just because something isnt on OFA does not mean that they failed. Until we require all pet people to do clearances we cannot assume. What I do know about this pedigree is that compared to most pedigrees they have a good clearance rating and the hip production record is fantastic. Multiple littermates in Sonny's litter were OFA excellent and quite frankly I was surprised when he got a good based on his XRAYS... maybe we will resubmit and try for an excellent. At any rate, I do not believe Sonny is just a dog that wins in the ring, quite frankly I think he will be remembered as a great stud dog based on how he is producing. Temperament, type, structure, and soundness. People are quick to point fingers when they see what is on the computer. I highly suggest you talk to people and get to know the dogs personally and understand whats really back there. I think you would be pleased once you educate yourself further.

Brianna Bischoff
Emery Goldens

I think its pretty **** good when 6 puppies clear everything, including multiple OFA Excellent hips...and one failed elbow out of 12 elbows to clear... Id say thats around a 95% rate of clearances?? Pretty good if you ask me...

Brianna

I would also like to know the "many other [Ryder] litters" where "the entire litter failed elbows." A statement, I suspect, that was just put in there in an attempt to prove a point with no data to back it up. That is a dangerous game to play... making such a grandiose statement like that. I suspect the owners and breeders of Ryder, the owners/breeders of Sonny (and his siblings) and owners/breeders of other Ryder offspring would also be interested to know this information.

As a general matter, there is no pedigree I have seen that is perfect for one reason or another. If there is, please show me this holy grail of soundness, breed type, longevity and perfect health so we can direct all breeders to breed to him. People who have been involved in dogs for any short amount of time, like me as a relative novice in conformation, know that there is an inherent risk with every pedigree. No pedigree is entirely perfect and anyone who says that a pedigree is perfect is either being untruthful or just hasn't done their research. That being said, I know Melissa at Ridgeview put a great deal of thought and research into this breeding. And I would encourage anyone with questions to contact Melissa.

__________________

No dog is perfect, no pedigree is perfect... There is always something... Careful the statements you make... There needs to be a public place that backs up the accusations...

__________________
Janice and The Celebration Gang -
"Samantha, George, Tiki, Emily, Mick and Basil" Gone but not forgotten, Sally(Windjammer's Ima Country Girl CDX CGC), Laney(Mandell Marlenes Celebration UD RA CGC), and Cookie(Starseeker's Kissmas Cookie CDX RE CGC).

I am appalled that someone would choose to air personal opinions of a famous stud dog in our breed (a top producer and sire of the current #1 bitch & #1 dog in breed this year). I know that Judy welcomes talking about pedigrees and health and has more knowledge and integrity then most of us could ever hope to have in a lifetime of work with this breed. I was asked to post this response from the owners of Ryder since they don’t have access to this group.


The recent post of Ryder has been very painful and very untrue. It is not a full picture. ???????? I don't know why you are so hateful Of Ryder and his kids. It appears to me you think you know everything but you have personally accomplished very little.

The Ryder story is one of a dream come true. My husband and I wanted to see if we could special a dog and put him in the SDHF. Ryder was finished by us and his breeder. His Hall of Fame points came mostly by Ken. We had the right dog and we had to learn to groom and handle better to compete at that level. Ryder had five Specialty BOB handled by Ken or his breeder Donna. Ryder was a Top Twenty Golden in 2006. We didn't take out ads. It was hard but we achieved our goal with our boy.

As a stud dog Ryder was especially on his own, no advertising. We met some wonderful people along the way who I am now proud to call friends. It was always about good people and good dogs. To date Ryder has sired 41 Champions, Leader Dogs for the blind, and the best granddog pups you can imagine.

If anyone wants to know about a stud dog, they should contact the owner and try not to pay attention to people who are mean spirited and like to denigrate others peoples achievements.

Was everything perfect all the time? Of course not, but, that's the reality of dog breeding. Pointing fingers and spreading rumors certainly doesn't help openness among breeders.

And yes dogs do have mothers too.

If anyone has any questions, call

Judy Schlecht
Confetti Goldens

Like I said earlier....ASK THE BREEDER!!!!

You point one finger, there are 3 others pointing right back at you. With that, this thread should be ended. I commend those of you who have stated facts because you know what you're talking about.

__________________
Caryn
Proud owner of: Miss Maddie Magoo CD NAP NJP RE CGC