Agreed...

That's not to say that I don't respect the breeders here, I do...

I took the info provided in the stickys and other threads and went straight to my breeder with my questions. For the information I have gotten here I am truly grateful..

Some of us newer golden people have shed tears in doing the right thing, and been held to high standards by mentors, inner ethics, and peer pressure too. I can count five us us easily who have had a beloved young dog fail a clearance, and all five did the right thing there- but it hurts. It is easy to come on too strong when someone else appears to bend rules you yourself must follow. . .

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Jill &
Lush: GCH Am CH Harborview Sweeter Than 'Shine At PoeticGold CGC
Tally: Goldiva Raleigh Tangled Up In Blue CD RAE TDI TT CGC
Copley: BOS Chantilly's Bright Lights Big City RN TDI CGC
Finn: Sand Dancer's Infinite Sky TDI TT CGC
Tango: Topbrass Everlore Talk Of The Town TT CGC(co owned)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Poeti...4205285?ref=hl
]

I have a very hard time keeping it polite anymore. Two of my friends as well as myself have been put through the ringer on this forum one of them has been breeding for over 35 years and has many CH behind her kennel name.

All three of us are members in good standing with our local breed club. All of us do our clearances. Though some may not send them in to OFA to be recorded. Some use OFA for hips some use penn-hip, or both as a valuable tool.

The fact still remains no matter how good we are their are people on this forum that will go back 10 year and comment on things that are no longer relevant.

I also care deeply for breed and only want the best for it's future. I guess the difference between me and some on this forum is that I will go directly to the source/breeder before condemning. I just wish everyone would do the same.

And THANK GOODNESS you do, no matter how difficult it is.

I agree I have had two dogs recently I have had to remove from my kennel. Both of which I bought from other kennels. Both did not pass on there hips. Both had been shown and obedience trained.

So will full disclosure they where placed into pet homes.

The sad thing is that they both came form very strong hip lines. No matter how much testing we do there is never any garentee that your dog will pass all of the clearances.

A little on and a little off topic. Yes, when a anyone posts a do you know anything about this breeder, it can get invasive for that breeder. If they have a public website, that information is scrutinized. This is the public "face" of the breeder and should be carefully crafted to put your best foot forward and to share what you as a breeder are all about. Is every breeder a techie or equally talented at self promotion? No.

So, when I post to these threads I do additional research on clearences. If the breeder is in the US, I expect them to follow the GRCA COE, especially when they claim membership or link to the GRCA on there site. That would include submitting the records to CERF or OFA.

But, beyond the GRCA COE, it is my hope (I maybe a dreamer, but I'm not the only one) that all breeders love the breed and are doing the best they can with their knowledge to better it. If this is the case, please submitt the records. It really is very in expensive. Here are some thing you may have not thought about....

If you like to hold on to your records and don't submitt them to OFA, what happens if God forbid your house catches fire and destroys your paper records/computer records?
What do breeders in future do if a prolific breeder of great dogs dies and a grieving spouse gets rid of all the well documented tests?

Your tests are so important not only to you but to the future of this breed. Imagine if you have a fantastic dog that you can not prove clearences in his pedigree because of one of these losses. Will he be used by conscientious breeders? Or will they look to a different dog that has proven/recorded clearence for 5-6 generation?

What will puppy buyers and the general public think when most dogs have clearances verifiable online and you do not? Whether right or wrong it raises questions and you might never have the opportunity to address them because people will just move on.

So, to every breeder out there who currently does not send in there records, please do. I will thank you, puppy buyers will thank you and the breeders of the future will thank you.

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Laura, Jinx, and Rocky
UKC CH Wildfire's A Kind of Magic CGC
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=474956
Rocky the old min pin who thinks he's a golden

What a great post, LJack.

Good point. Most people will move to another dog, of course. But for those that choose to breed to this dog, it affects decisions in future generations, as well. Breeders looking at ancestral clearances will see the lack and decide not to breed to the offspring of this dog, or the grandchildren of this dog. It doesn't affect just this dog, it ripples through time if anyone does breed to the dog.

Unfortunately, there will always be buyers for puppies whose parents lack clearances. Most puppy buyers don't know and don't care about these things. They see a cute, healthy-looking puppy and a lovely healthy-looking mama, and the moment that puppy leans up against them all other thoughts leave the buyer's head and the puppy is sold.

Guess I should have clarified...educated puppy buyers. And yes there will always be uneducated buyers or buyer who don't care.

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Laura, Jinx, and Rocky
UKC CH Wildfire's A Kind of Magic CGC
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=474956
Rocky the old min pin who thinks he's a golden

I strongly second this. When posts to any thread cease to be polite, we will close the thread. Too many otherwise-valuable discussions of breeding practices are cut short because opinions are not expressed courteously. Diverse opinions are important and welcome, provided they are communicated with respect for the community.

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Lucy, owned by Joker and Sunny, who remember Charlie with me
http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/...years-old.html

And there have been plenty of times that every breeder has been in the same position. If you are going to show and breed, it is a position you will be in. There is no way around it. I don't even want to think about the number of dogs that have been "culled" from my breeding program over the years, for a variety of reasons. One was a group placing girl from the classes with me as a complete novice, showing her. It happens.

My issue with this thread is that this breeder did not appear to have a mentor. She was breeding without knowing about a COE and did not have someone to guide her. She later became aware that there was a different way of doing things when she started going to some classes and then also joined a GR Club. To me, this person needs to be given the benefit of the doubt.

I do not see how any purpose has been or will be served to jump on this person. Especially, given that a lot of the information that was posted about her is not completely factual. One of the very first posts says that NONE of her dogs have OFA hip and elbow clearances and I am sorry, that is just not true. I went on her website and looked the dogs up on the OFA myself. The dogs do have hip and elbow clearances. That was what this whole thread started for-the fact that there were no hip and elbow clearances, and there are.

While I am very happy that many people do have mentors and information to start with that will help them to make the "correct" decisions, many people do not and so they have to learn as they go. At least this person is open to learning(considering she has gone back and done all the clearances) and is making much better choices at this point with her dogs. Is there room for improvement?? There is always room for improvement but as I said previously, especially with someone who has already demonstrated they would like to do things the right way, I would rather try to educate them rather than beat them with a stick.

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