What do you think about this breeder? - Page 5 - Golden Retrievers : Golden Retriever Dog Forums
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post #41 of 107 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 06:46 PM
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What about a German Shepherd mix:

labrador-german shepherd

Karen, Chance, Lucy and Savanah (RB)

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post #42 of 107 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SheetsSM View Post
I think you may be overestimating the hoops for shelters unless you've already scoped them out. It's fairly easy to adopt a shelter pet. I am concerned if you don't think a shelter would permit you then I think you may have a hard time convincing a reputable breeder to sell you one of their pups.
A shelter is easier than a rescue to adopt from. You can even have your name on a waiting list for a particular type of dog you are looking for. I know the shelter I support, does this. Goldens never even make it to be publicly listed, because there is a waiting list for them.

Marie, Brady, MacKenzie, Sailor, Kennedy and Junie
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post #43 of 107 (permalink) Old 08-03-2012, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cubbysan View Post
Personally, I would not make a full judgement by a website alone.

I did not see who the parents were of the puppies she already sold, she does have a few co-owned dogs that are older.

The dogs that I have seen, are right about two or less than two, and she states she is waiting for their final clearances. I am not sure how long it takes to have them finalized and entered. One of the dogs just turned two about 6 weeks ago. I think one of them stated she just passed.

She does state on her website how her program has evolved the years she has been doing goldens. It sounds like sounds like she is now heading in the right direction.

She is a member of the Pacific Rim Golden Retriever Club and the GRCA or so she claims, I would contact them and see if she is a member in good standing.

A few of her dogs are off spring of Whiskey Creek, maybe get in touch with her, and see if she has an opinion one way or another about this breeder. According to K9DATA, they co-own Pedigree: UCI Int'l CH Whiskey Creeks Royal Flush CGC

The dogs on her website might not be all of her dogs. My breeder only shows about handful at a time and some of them are at the bridge.
I would be perfectly willing to make a judgement to pass based on this website. She states on the website that her dogs have their clearances but on K9Data she states they are prelim clearances, the OFA has clear information about what can be considered a clearance and what can't. i.e., a preliminary clearance. If she is a member of the GRCA then I would hope she has read the code of ethics about breeding. Heck, I was possibly maybe thinking about breeding and I have read the COE.

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post #44 of 107 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 01:45 PM
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Smile Fyi

I was really not going to respond to this because some of it makes me sad and the rest of it just makes me angry.

First of all, I do not EVER try to mislead people. In fact, I thought I couldn't have made it easier for people to see exactly what they had by 1)listing the last hip test, whether final or prelim, and then giving the exact link with that dogs information to k9data. At that point, it specifically says either the permanent OFA number OR the prelim WITH the PENN-HIP test results. I actually didn't know I could submit PENN HIP results to OFA and have them count. For that, thank you for the good information. ALL OF MY OLDER DOGS THAT ARE NO LONGER USED FOR BREEDING HAVE BOTH OFA PRELIM and a PENN-HIP OF 50% OR BETTER... BUT MOST OF THEM ARE IN THE 90% RANGE. I have since gone back and done a 3rd test on them for the OFA final just to please the unpleaseable and to get it on OFA. Everyone who comes out to meet me or my dogs can view all the paperwork. I also send home 3 generations of testing and pedigree information. This includes heart, hip, eye, elbow, Penn-hip, PRA, and Ichtyosis... It goes home in a tidy binder with vet records and AKC registration. My mentor that I origianally had was very big into Penn-Hip testing. That is why I have both. I even agreed and really thought that while both OFA and Penn-Hip are testing for hip dysplasia, they really are looking for different things and require different x-rays. I believe that doing both gives THE BEST picture of hip health in dogs. I stopped doing them a year ago due to expense and that they didn't show up on OFA website (again thanks for clearing this up since I can send these in.). In 2 days, I will have taken every dog I have either for hip final or prelims. It will be listed, as well as I will be adding a link to OFA for each dog. Again, I am not trying to hide anything. I wasn't before. Am not now. I thought I was being clear.

Next you bash the ability of my dogs. I am speechless to that. I will be the first to admit they don't have high ranking titles. That is a work in progress and more reflect my ability as a trainer than the ability of my dogs. When I started off doing this as a very serious hobby, I was happy that my dogs were earning a STAR AND CGC. I was really after proving they had the correct temperament. The problem is that I have unfortunately met many goldens that do not have the traits that we all value so highly. They were mean, aggressive, and hard to train. I returned them to the breeders and I did not breed those. (I also chose not to breed those dogs with passing hip tests, but that had a PENN-HIP score of 10% or 30%. Again, the information used TOGETHER was not good enough in my eyes to breed them, even though they could pass the OFA test by itself.) I originally set out wanting dogs that were beautiful, but soon realized that a good exterior meant nothing without a sound mind and heart (same could be said of people also

I'm getting off subject, but at any rate, my progression was breeding dogs that I thought were nice, then it went to dogs that had earned their CGC. Then I went to using dogs that had passed both CGC and had a Rally Novice title. This past summer, my first dog earned a Junior Hunt Title. You guys on this site, will totally knock that title and thats okay. I drove over 600 miles one way to earn that 4th qualified test. I was so High on life! I don't expect anyone reading this to actually care, but it was indescribable. Next year, all the new dogs I start will be required to have an obedience title, rally title, hunt title... Oh, and I just recently started tracking... What fun! The point is, that while my personal ability is still learning, it DOES NOT take away from the fact that my dogs do exhibit the qualities needed for service, performance, and family pets. And I prove this at the level I am capable of. Each year, that level will become higher and higher. Next year, I get to start a dog for Senior Hunt tests and have 2 that should earn their CDX. That, no matter how you want to bash me, makes me happy and proud.

To specifically hit on the STAR thing... every single pup that I keep I take to puppy class. It is important for 2 reasons: 1) I get to see my pups interacting with other dogs in the same setting that the new owners see. It lets me evaluate and confirm that my dogs are exactly what i say they are. 2) I PREACH to all my new owners the importance of puppy class. How can I ask them to spend money and time on it when I won't? It doesn't make sense. I pay for it and value it. So should they value those same things in their pet. I will always see the value in this.

Someone made the comment that my dogs may not be the breed standard. To that I'm also so excited say that also isn't true. They meet height, weight, temperament, instincts, and beauty. The conformation is good. I'm also super excited that early next year we will have a CCA event near me and that my dogs are going!!! Just because a dog does not show in AKC conformation does not mean it is not a correct dog. I should also point out that just because a dog does show in AKC conformation doesn't mean that the same dog can go out and retieve a bird. It works both ways.

As far as knocking the service dog organizations... well, it makes me sad beyond belief. Is there a possibility of a bad apple out there? Sure, but I'm very confident that the ones I work with are not those. I recieve updates, go to my dogs graduations, and I get to see my dog with its new working partner. This, hands down, is the best part of what I do. I get to see a dog change a person's life. A person that wasn't able to be in public on their own, now can. A marine with PTSD can now function. Imagine the bond you have with your dog and then multiply it infanately because the fact is that many of the people cannot function without their service dog. Shame on you for that. These people deserve extra help and I am and will always be willing to help those people that provide these dogs for people.

My dogs are exactly what I say they are. I cannot guarantee they will be the next OTCH or that they will become a Champion show dog. WHAT I CAN GUARANTEE is that I have bred from healthy parents, with wonderful health history (which I can verify with my binder of info/ofa website) of which I provide 3 generations, and that they will have the characteristics that the breed standard calls for and that most people seek. I have proven through the showing, classes, and training that my dogs are calm, easy to train, and that they can still do very well in stressful and busy situations.

I won't be responding to this anymore. I appreciate the info about the Penn-hip being eligble for OFA. I dotted my I's but didn't cross my T's. I have since fixed that/in the process of fixing it. In fact, I've even gone back to people with the adults I've retired and paid for an OFA final for them... just so its on record with OFA even though I already posess the test for OFA prelim and PENN HIP. As always, all info will be listed on my website and anyone with questions is welcome to call me or email me personally. I have copies of EVERYTHING, though everything should be listed on OFA by the end of the year.

I will continue to advocate for people with disabilities and for those who go above and beyond to make a difference in their life.

I will continue to enjoy my dogs, our activities together, and the feelings of pride when they do well, and the sadness when we don't do as well as I had hoped
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post #45 of 107 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Vhuynh2 View Post
Oh sorry I missed that.

Most of her dogs are under 2 but she claims on her website that they have their hips and elbows done. On K9data, it says her dogs have prelims done. Those are not clearances so she is being misleading by saying they are cleared. For one dog she even went as far as putting "OFA Good" for hips on their k9data page, which is sketchy because why aren't there clearance numbers? Offa.org shows no hip or elbow clearances for that dog or ANY dog she has. She has one dog over the age of 2, but according to K9data she only has prelims and no real hip and elbow clearances.

Maybe I am the one missing something here but when I looked at her website, it showed the dogs as having OFA prelims stating they had OFA prelims.

Sunset HHF Golden Retrievers - OUR BOYS - BANKS, OR

If you look, it states that Sonic has prelims(because he is not old enough for finals) and I do not see where he is being bred.

This is the litter of puppies that she currently has and the puppies parents do have their hips and elbow clearances, which has been the complaint on this thread, that they did not. An eye clearance is not listed, but that can easily be checked with the breeder:
Sunset HHF Golden Retrievers - PUPPIES! - BANKS, OR
Whyatt the sire :Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
Misty the dam: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

She has a litter that is due in early December and the dam is Int'l CH Sunset's I Am Hope CGC. Here are her clearances: Orthopedic Foundation for Animals
her CERF is out of date and her heart isn't listed but those things can be checked with the breeder and this thread has been about her not having hip and elbow clearances. Those are clearly listed.

I do not know this breeder at all and had never heard of her before this thread was started. I just believe that if information is going to be put out on the web about a breeder, it needs to be correct information.

It clearly states on her website which dogs have prelims and when those dogs will be retested for finals. I do not see this as decieving. Many breeders do prelims and then do finals, myself included. I don't always put that information on my website, but it can be seen on the OFA website.

It appears to me that this breeder is starting out and trying to do things the proper way. She may not state things exactly as people are used to seeing things stated but the dogs that have been recently bred do have hip and elbow clearances.

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post #46 of 107 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:20 PM
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I think you also have to take into account when this thread started and bump that up against the report date shown on OFA--looking at a couple, clearances didn't report until Nov 12.
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post #47 of 107 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:23 PM
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Sigh. I so appreciate what PennHIP is doing....but honestly I wish they would go away. I wish they would require a dog to be over 2 years old and I wish they had an online verifiable database. Because isn't it a big coincidence that every fringe breeder who has spotty clearances and has to step up and defend breeding dogs without OFA clearances (NOT PRELIMS), magically is a big proponent of PennHIP? Yet by-the-book responsible golden breeders use PennHIP once in a blue moon and only when accompanied by an OFA score? Wow what a revelation.....
Listen....DO THE OFA FINAL HIP EVALUATIONS. Not a prelim. Not an xray your vet eyeballs. Just do it. Then you don't have to defend anything. End of story. For half the price of one of those JH entry fees you can submit a FINAL OFA xray and get a REAL CLEARANCE.

"Fisher" CH Deauxquest Hard Day's Knight UDT VER RAE MH WCX CCA VCX OS DDHF, Can. CD WC
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post #48 of 107 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 09:23 PM
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What I don't understand is the need to breed and have multiple litters and then think about pursuing titles--why put the cart before the horse?
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post #49 of 107 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pixies_big_sister View Post
They have had several dogs go to service dog organizations and done rather well, which is what caught my eye, because I'm able to see what the dogs are like as service dogs.
I would actually check with the service dog organizations listed (if even named) and ask THEM for that reference. "Breeders" have begun to claim that they produce and sell service dogs as a way to gain trust and legitimacy from unsuspecting purchasers. I will say that most if not ALL reputable service dog organizations will not accept puppies from dogs without all clearances.

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post #50 of 107 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pointgold View Post
I would actually check with the service dog organizations listed (if even named) and ask THEM for that reference. "Breeders" have begun to claim that they produce and sell service dogs as a way to gain trust and legitimacy from unsuspecting purchasers. I will say that most if not ALL reputable service dog organizations will not accept puppies from dogs without all clearances.
You are 100% correct. I have fostered puppies for our local service organization for many years, 14 puppies worth. Most reputable service organizations have their own breeding programs and when they do accept a donation puppy, both mom and dad must have all the clearances required for the breed (GR, poodle, lab etc), as well as up to date immunizations. They also want to meet mom and dad, if possible, and they come and check out where the puppy has been whelped and raised. They also do not pay for their dogs, it is strictly a donation.

As to the temperment/behaviour of a service dog, how much of it is training and how much of it is genetics. These puppies are worked with from the time they are very very young, 2 weeks, in some cases. They have extensive socialization and training classes through out puppyhood, often by experienced foster families and around 1 year of age they are handed over to professional trainers. In my opinion, I believe all well bred goldens could achieve this "service dog" level or behaviour with similar training.

There is a golden breeder in Ontario that claims to provide puppies for service dogs. It is impossible to find the "service organization" he does this for. Also, most reputable service dog organizations do not sell their service dogs to their clients that need them.
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