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Old 07-30-2012, 03:39 PM
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English Meadow Retrievers central Michigan area

Has anyone bought a puppy from them or know any information about them? Good experiences bad experiences? Quality of thier dogs (Sire and Dam's)? How do I use the k9data.com website to accurated check out the parents and pedigree?

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Old 07-30-2012, 04:14 PM
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I'm not familiar with them, but based on their website, I might keep looking for a different breeder. The price seems a little high for the midwest. I'm sure people will mention the "English Creme," usage, which personally, I don't view as a dealbreaker, but the marketing implication (ie fur color matters as much as temperament) is offputting to a lot of people. Something seems weird about their contract on their website too. I can't quite place what it is that bugs me about it, but it seems sort of sloppy and breeder-centric.

Looking at some of their dogs on k9data.com, I'm not seeing any titles on their dogs, which many people find problematic, because if a dog is worthy of breeding, part of the proof of that argument is in the dog's titles (other proofs include health clearances, general temperment, pedigree, etc).

Offa has one of their girls (Isabella) with preliminary hips and elbows, but nothing more recent than that. I'm not seeing any hip evaluation on offa at all, besides Isabella's preliminary...of course, that might not mean anything.

This is as objective as I can lay it out, and there's certainly the possibility that I missed something in my analysis, so take it with a grain of salt.
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:33 PM
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Another thing I noticed when doing a search on k9data.com is that all their dogs in that database have a listed birthdate in 2009. I guess I wouldn't fault a breeder for having several dogs born close to one another, but it sort of comes off as the breeder just decided one day to be an English style Golden retriever breeder, spent the next several months collecting dogs, and started breeding.

Breeders I've spoken to spend years finding the right dogs to breed, and the good ones seem incredibly thoughtful about this process (and certainly their foundations). I don't mean to be overly critical of this breeder, and I certainly may be way off base... but that was just something I noticed.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marleoz View Post
Has anyone bought a puppy from them or know any information about them? Good experiences bad experiences? Quality of thier dogs (Sire and Dam's)? How do I use the k9data.com website to accurated check out the parents and pedigree?

Thanks
Are you interested specifically in the "English Creme" Goldens?

We just got a Golden puppy in Michigan, and when I was looking I noticed that those breeders advertising the "English Cremes" tended to want a lot more $$ than the breeders of the more standard or "American" goldens...whether they were field or conformation types.

From what I saw, the standard puppy price around here (SE - mid Michigan) from a reputable breeder was $1,200.

I am by no means an expert, but what I notice on the English Meadow website is that they do not give any pedigree information on any of their dogs. They say they do hip, elbow, eye and heart clearances, but when I look them up on OFFA (by kennel name) none of the dogs have a complete set of clearances. And one of the heart clearances was by a practitioner rather than a cardiologist. Also, no titles on the dogs and no indication of any kind of competition activity, be it agility, obedience, field or comformation.

Also....the contract requires proof of spay/neuter by 12 months of age. I've learned that age of spay/neuter can be a pretty hot topic, and don't know if you have a strong opinion. Try using the search feature on this forum and looking up spay/neuter for a lot of info on it. But the 12mo spay/neuter is one thing you might want to talk to the breeder about if you do pursue this breeder.

When I was looking for a puppy, I called the Fort Detroit Golden Retriever Club's puppy referral contact. You can find it on their website.

Fort Detroit Golden Retriever Club of Michigan

They were VERY helpful in pointing me toward reputable breeders with current litters. In fact, there were two breeders with litters that would be ready to go to homes in August. I was on waiting lists for both. No clue if all the puppies from those litters are spoken for, but they would be worth calling. Unless you have your heart set on the English Creme.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:17 PM
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I would recommend that you continue looking.
Lots of red flags there...

I also suggest contacting Fort Detroit GRC.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:48 PM
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Yeah, and with a terrific vet school within an easy drive there is NO reason to only have a practitioner heart clearance. Heck I have had friends drive from the Toronto area to consult with specialists there!
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:03 AM
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more information

Thanks everyone for the comments so far. Here is some more information. This is their website English Cream | White Golden Retriever Puppies Carson City Michigan
and here are two of their dogs full names for the k9 website
Oakshire Bradley James and Romantika Iz Stolisty Urala

Those that already replied can you take a look at these names and tell me what you see?
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:14 AM
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both parents on site

I just read that having both parents on site is a bad thing? Why is that?
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:24 AM
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As a lay person, I wouldn't necessarily fault a breeder for owning both the sire and the dam. I'd question if an unaltered boy could get proper socializatin being surrounded by a bunch of girls, but I'm sure there are ways to make that work. From my conversations with breeders, I think a big argument for finding an external sire or dam would be because they're not really improving their foundation if they don't go outside of their own lines. And they really walk the line between breeder and puppy mill when all they're really doing is breeding their own dogs with one another. I'm not sure if others could provide other reasons why a breeder shouldn't (or wouldn't want to) own both the male and the female.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CStrong73 View Post
Are you interested specifically in the "English Creme" Goldens?

We just got a Golden puppy in Michigan, and when I was looking I noticed that those breeders advertising the "English Cremes" tended to want a lot more $$ than the breeders of the more standard or "American" goldens...whether they were field or conformation types.

From what I saw, the standard puppy price around here (SE - mid Michigan) from a reputable breeder was $1,200.

I am by no means an expert, but what I notice on the English Meadow website is that they do not give any pedigree information on any of their dogs. They say they do hip, elbow, eye and heart clearances, but when I look them up on OFFA (by kennel name) none of the dogs have a complete set of clearances. And one of the heart clearances was by a practitioner rather than a cardiologist. Also, no titles on the dogs and no indication of any kind of competition activity, be it agility, obedience, field or comformation.

Also....the contract requires proof of spay/neuter by 12 months of age. I've learned that age of spay/neuter can be a pretty hot topic, and don't know if you have a strong opinion. Try using the search feature on this forum and looking up spay/neuter for a lot of info on it. But the 12mo spay/neuter is one thing you might want to talk to the breeder about if you do pursue this breeder.

When I was looking for a puppy, I called the Fort Detroit Golden Retriever Club's puppy referral contact. You can find it on their website.

Fort Detroit Golden Retriever Club of Michigan

They were VERY helpful in pointing me toward reputable breeders with current litters. In fact, there were two breeders with litters that would be ready to go to homes in August. I was on waiting lists for both. No clue if all the puppies from those litters are spoken for, but they would be worth calling. Unless you have your heart set on the English Creme.
How do you check the OFFA site just based on the kennel name? I can't find that.
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