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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 09:51 PM
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This is the problem I am having, who isn't being civil?

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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 09:58 PM
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I don't think it was anything extreme, but if you try to put yourself in the OP's shoes, he comes on and makes a sincere post about his dog, and there's a mocking of a term he uses in his first post (cream) and then again in his next post (pure white). I'm sure it was all intended in good fun, but if I put myself in his shoes, I'd feel mocked and piled on.
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:43 PM
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I have never posted into a thread where there are very strong opinions, but this one has peaked my interest. I have been involved with goldens for over thirty years. Only as a love for the breed and their friendly nature. Not for show, hunting, breeding, etc. I am very confused as to why so many people have bad things to say about light colored goldens. Someone else made a comment about being "golden retrievers" but no one ever complains about red...they are not gold in color. I personally love them all just the same. My golden now is the lightest I have ever had and the smallest. I love her just the same and I don't consider her a "rotten apple" because of her color.
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyK View Post
I have never posted into a thread where there are very strong opinions, but this one has peaked my interest. I have been involved with goldens for over thirty years. Only as a love for the breed and their friendly nature. Not for show, hunting, breeding, etc. I am very confused as to why so many people have bad things to say about light colored goldens. Someone else made a comment about being "golden retrievers" but no one ever complains about red...they are not gold in color. I personally love them all just the same. My golden now is the lightest I have ever had and the smallest. I love her just the same and I don't consider her a "rotten apple" because of her color.
Just as a point of order, the redder dogs are supposed to be red gold. The standard specifically states that a true mahogany would not be within standard. And I would feel the same way about a breeder who claimed "Canadian Reds." If a breeder puts color above health, temperament, and competing, and if a breeder deliberately breeds for a non-standard color, I think that's a problem.
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 11:39 PM
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Looked at copy of my AKC papers. They have light golden, golden, dark golden as choices to check. Is the problem just with the extra names that are being given? My Lily's father is from Romania (with certs) but there was no mention of "English Cream". To me she is just a light golden. If the original poster here just said "light golden" would that have been better? Are most of you here just upset at how the breeder names their goldens? Sorry, I am just confused as to why everyone seemed to jump on the op.
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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-05-2011, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyK View Post
I have never posted into a thread where there are very strong opinions, but this one has peaked my interest. I have been involved with goldens for over thirty years. Only as a love for the breed and their friendly nature. Not for show, hunting, breeding, etc. I am very confused as to why so many people have bad things to say about light colored goldens. Someone else made a comment about being "golden retrievers" but no one ever complains about red...they are not gold in color. I personally love them all just the same. My golden now is the lightest I have ever had and the smallest. I love her just the same and I don't consider her a "rotten apple" because of her color.
It's hard for me to get my point across without sounding hurtful. I guess how I feel about it is, if you're going to own a dog that is white, then don't claim it is a golden retriever. You don't see people calling their black labs yellow labs - because the dog is black, not yellow. I know it sounds nitpicky, but that's who I am.

A white retriever to me is just that - a white retriever. It may very well have the same temperament and appearance of a golden retriever (save for the obvious of course) but in my mind it's not a golden retriever. I am absolutely not implying that a white retriever is a rotten apple - it's just not a golden retriever is all! For what it's worth, I actually think white retrievers are very pretty. They always remind me of the kuvasz (at least in looks):
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyK View Post
Looked at copy of my AKC papers. They have light golden, golden, dark golden as choices to check. Is the problem just with the extra names that are being given? My Lily's father is from Romania (with certs) but there was no mention of "English Cream". To me she is just a light golden. If the original poster here just said "light golden" would that have been better? Are most of you here just upset at how the breeder names their goldens? Sorry, I am just confused as to why everyone seemed to jump on the op.
Maybe you didn't see it, but on the previous page, I wrote a whole post about the problems and potential problems with the breeder:


Quote:
Originally Posted by tippykayak View Post
When a member goes ahead and purchases from a breeder who seems to leaving information off their site in order make it more difficult to look up clearances, it's hard for people to express their frustration positively.

That's why you're getting so many questions about clearances. Do your pup's parents have the four clearances outlined in the GRCA's code of ethics? Or did the breeder convince you that they weren't necessary?

And the standard is important. A truly white dog is outside both American and English standards. So if a dog is white, he's not bred to either standard. And the standard is important to most breed enthusiasts. It's what defines the Golden and keeps him true to his look and purpose. I think that's where you're getting the mocking of "English Cream." A truly cream colored dog could be inside the English standard. But this breeder is intentionally breeding for a particular color (already a bad idea, since it means more important concerns go down the list) outside the standard (another problem).
So it has little to do with the name, though "English Cream" has come to be synonymous with poor breeding practices for many of us. It has to do with the problems with breeding for color, the problems with breeding dogs deliberately outside of standard, and the questions about clearances.
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyK View Post
Looked at copy of my AKC papers. They have light golden, golden, dark golden as choices to check. Is the problem just with the extra names that are being given? My Lily's father is from Romania (with certs) but there was no mention of "English Cream". To me she is just a light golden. If the original poster here just said "light golden" would that have been better? Are most of you here just upset at how the breeder names their goldens? Sorry, I am just confused as to why everyone seemed to jump on the op.
I did not jump on the OP.

My first responding post was intended as a throat clearing because the original post sounded like a defensive charge and included an endorsement of the breeder simply based on how much they love their puppy. And that people should follow their impulses instead of thoroughly screening breeders - something that could get a lot of people in trouble.

There are really GOOD English type breeders out there, and as long as they are on the up and up and doing everything they should, more power to them.

I posted the pictures of the "english creme" because I was responding to that fad, not the OP.

My comment on the "pure white" was a "Oh gawd" gut response based on all of the threads and posts I've read from concerned and responsible people trying to educate the masses about why golden retrievers should not be "white". Or sold as "white" dogs.

I do stand by what I said in my first post. There is no point in arguing or defending the OP's decision to buy the puppy. It's done and there is no going back. Time to move on.

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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 02:11 PM
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I think one of the reasons people have been posting about the "Cream" or "white" Golden thing is that the OP states that he/she has read through the other threads concerning Starr Goldens, so he/she is aware that many/most of the regular contributors to the forum have problems not only with Starr Goldens, but also with the Cream/white marketing program. I got the impression from the first post that the OP was saying "You all said how terrible this kennel was, but my "Very White" puppy is wonderful."

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-06-2011, 09:31 PM
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I have to agree that there is something kuvasz about the white goldens. They sometimes have such harsh expressions.

Janice and The Celebration Gang -
"Samantha, George, Tiki, Emily, Mick and Basil" Gone but not forgotten, Sally(Windjammer's Ima Country Girl CDX CGC), Laney(Mandell Marlenes Celebration UD RA CGC), and Cookie(Starseeker's Kissmas Cookie CDX RE CGC).
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