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What to Look For....

6K views 47 replies 21 participants last post by  Megora 
#1 ·
I thought I'd throw this question out there just for mysterious reasons. :p:

Lets say you are going to visit a breeder with the object of buying a puppy who will be a family pet foremost, but also a hopefully sound prospect for jumping-running-obeying-in-confident-sprightly-manner for obedience.

What would you walk away from?

What would catch your eyeball?

I'm possibly tentatively MAYBE going to have 4 puppies to pick from, with the selection narrowed down to 2 for me. <- And I'll be discussing what I'm looking at or want with the breeder the entire time. Having seen pics of the pups and knowing how scrummy they are, I know it's not going to be easy. :bowl: I hopefully will not be in this position again for 10+ years.

Something I remember with Jacks that caught my eye was the fact he wanted something in his mouth while playing, he made no sounds whatsoever, was happily investigating the room but really focusing on us and wanting to be picked up closer to our faces. And he was already nippy/mouthy - but I took that as a good thing because I assumed a puppy who wanted things in his mouth would be a quick and easy puppy to teach retrieves to.

And he just was this prancy little guy - very definitely a natural as far as picking up his feet.

With Jacks too we were like "wow" when we saw his thunder thighs. :eek: We wanted to make sure we got a puppy with good bone and muscle - what little that means when they are that little. :bowl:

The other thing too... as far as puppy traveling crates, what do you look for? I'm thinking about getting something very basic since I'll be donating it to the rescue group after a month or so.

It's going to be about a 50 minute drive home, and I want to get a comfy crate for the puppy to hang out in. And depending on how insane I am feeling whenever the time comes, I may bring Jacks with when I pick the pup up.
 
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#2 ·
A few things that are on the puppy tests for Performance dogs:

1) Natural ability to walk by your side
2) Playing with a towel being dragged
3) Retrieving
4) Liking eye contact
5) Coming when called (not by name, usually by 'pup pup' and maybe clapping)

but overall, you will be needing a balanced puppy. Confident and outgoing to a degree but he/she should be most interested in you.

Good luck, have fun!! BTW: my puppies choose me - I know a lot of folks don't really believe in that but for me it seems to work out that way.

ETA: I use a medium size plastic crate - Brady is 4 months old now and still in this crate when travelling. Thi scrate will be returned to Barb in the next week or so; I usually donate to Rescues etc at about 5 months if I purchased one so prefer them a little larger to see me through.
 
#3 ·
I like mellow dogs so when I picked Yukon he was mellow, not running and jumping all over the place but he wasn't the shyest and he walked right up to me when I put my hand out. He was one of the "stockiest" of the bunch too and I love that! I'm also kinda partial to male dogs for whatever reason (probably because my favorite dog as a child was a boy)

Were you taking your current dog with you to help pick a puppy? He may not fall in love with one LOL he may do the opposite because he would be out of his normal environment and may be scared, excited, territorial etc with the smell of other dogs.
 
#6 ·
Thanks Sharon - excellent info!

I like mellow dogs so when I picked Yukon he was mellow, not running and jumping all over the place
I like running and jumping... :) It means the puppy is going to have enough energy to spare. I just don't like running, jumping, barking, mouthing, squirming, and ignoring because everything else is SO EXCITING. Spastic in other words. :)

Were you taking your current dog with you to help pick a puppy? He may not fall in love with one LOL he may do the opposite because he would be out of his normal environment and may be scared, excited, territorial etc with the smell of other dogs.
Oh no way! I was thinking about bringing him with on the take home visit, and even then he wouldn't be getting out of the car. Jacks is a doll - and I think most who meet him generally see him that way. :eek: But it would be too much stress and sweat for me bringing him into somebody else's house with a lot of puppies running around.

Is the litter going to be evaluated by trainers? I would ask to be in on the evaluation.
I don't think there is or was an evaluation... this is a more conformation type litter. I'll ask the breeder is she's has the pups evaluated, but I imagine if they were it was probably for conformation vs obedience.
 
#4 ·
Is the litter going to be evaluated by trainers? I would ask to be in on the evaluation.

I agree with Sunrise on the factors, desire/ability to do something approximating a "heel" preferably with attention and an instinct to retrieve. Also a balance between confidence and desire to be with you. Finally a dog that easily can be revved up and also calmed down.
 
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#5 ·
Honestly I'd be more concerned with finding the right litter for your purposes than the right puppy out of the litter.
If you want to do obedience then look for a litter with a strong possibility of producing obedience dogs. That means trainability, biddability, confidence, intelligence, tractability, sane-ness, non-distractability/focus, etc etc etc, both in the parents and depth of pedigree. This means the parents and extended family proved it with high level obedience titles and production of dogs with high level obedience titles. There are LOTS and LOTS of golden litters out there; if you want a square peg, don't shop at a breeder with round holes.
In the few litters I've had extensive exposure to, and watched them all grow up and evaluated them and witnessed them at a temperament test at 7 weeks, I've observed that SOME traits they display as little puppies hold up throughout their lifetime, but those traits that make them successful or not at high level training and competition can be very hard to discern at that age. Overall the litter will be better suited for training & competition than the average but between individual puppies in the litter, very difficult to tell at 7 weeks. Their true individual personalities don't really develop until later. So much depends on the trainer and how well their temperament jives with the trainer. Best to depend on the temperament and training/competition attitude of the parents. If you like the parents and would want one like that, then just pick the puppy that strikes you best :)
 
#7 ·
Honestly I'd be more concerned with finding the right litter for your purposes than the right puppy out of the litter.
If you want to do obedience then look for a litter with a strong possibility of producing obedience dogs. That means trainability, biddability, confidence, intelligence, tractability, sane-ness, non-distractability/focus, etc etc etc, both in the parents and depth of pedigree. This means the parents and extended family proved it with high level obedience titles and production of dogs with high level obedience titles. There are LOTS and LOTS of golden litters out there; if you want a square peg, don't shop at a breeder with round holes.
Thanks for this, Anney. It's probably one of the things that does concern me about this litter. I know with Jacks - what attracted me to his litter was the abilities of his parents. Not so much titles, but their responsiveness and desire to please.

The biggest thing especially is the desire to retrieve... I'm fine with building a retrieve from nothing, but it's easier when they have that instinctively have that joy of chasing and parading.

And I'm learning too that the search/find wiring works better when some of it is already there before you start training. o_O

We will see. :)
 
#9 ·
They're not doing temperament testing?

I'm with Anney. I don't think a lot of things are always evident in a young pup, particularly energy, drive, and retrieving. In those areas I am looking at the pedigree, not the puppy. I really dont care so much if the pup doesn't go retrieve during testing, if it's there in the pedigree it will develop as the pup grows.

I want a puppy that shows confidence. I picked Flip because he was the one that decided immediately that the umbrella being popped out at him must be a toy to run play with.
 
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#11 ·
They're not doing temperament testing?
I'll ask the breeder when I visit. I assume they did have somebody testing the litter, and temperament is the most basic part of the test that I know of. I just don't think the breeder would have had somebody specifically testing the puppies out for abilities for obedience or agility. This isn't a performance breeder. I doubt she's had the puppies out playing on an agility course the last few weeks. :p:

I really dont care so much if the pup doesn't go retrieve during testing, if it's there in the pedigree it will develop as the pup grows.
Not always though.... our Sammy had a stacked pedigree (obedience and field) and retrieving wasn't his thing. He was the one who visited momentarily with us and then trotted off to do his own thing. :eek:
 
#10 ·
I just knew in my heart that Jige was mine. But then I asked my breeder to pick for me too and I didnt know which pup her and her hubby thought would be best for me when I picked up Jige and said I wanted him and he was the one they said they picked for me too. Some will call me crazy but I dont pick with my eyes I pick with my heart and my soul. I think you will know if one of those pups will be everything you want it to be when you see them. If it doesnt feel right then look some place else.
 
#12 ·
How old are the pups? Usually they don't do the evaluations until 7 or 8 weeks. I would hope that they would do a behavior evaluation even if they are not specifically looking at traits that would make a good competitive obedience dog. That evaluation will look at the same general traits as a more specific evaluation.
 
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#13 · (Edited)
8.5 weeks. :)

I just spoke with the cobreeder and definitely feel a bit more hyped up - if possible. :)

They do a variation of temperament testing, I believe just all around testing for temperament - and both breeders have a committment to producing dogs that have the golden temperament. She said that if you let the temperament slide, then goes a long way toward destroying the breed. We got to talking about obedience, and she mentioned that one of her dogs produced one of Judie Howard's dogs. And how Judie had told her a few times about how she'd never had a dog more aware of his rear end than this particular dog. I laughed and told her about Jacks and class last night - where we flunked a good portion of the class because our instructor decided to focus on getting the dogs to use their rears and my dog decided to forget he has one. :)
 
#14 ·
I got Jonah from a conformation breeding and I will say he can get a bit lazy or maybe it is boredom if we train an obedience exercise multiple times. I learned at a seminar that if you hold the puppy like a baby and they give you good eye contact, that is a good sign. The puppy will likely grow up wanting to please you and follow your lead on what to do next. Does this breeding have some type of canine sports titles? Are there any titles in the ancestry such as, agility, obedience, hunting?
 
#15 ·
@Happy - looking at the puppies' standard view pedigree, there is exactly one dog who has a CDX and JH in addition to the conformation titles. If you do the 5-generation view, then there is a handful of others - mainly Kirby.

This is mainly a conformation pedigree though. Lots of dogs from Beth Johnson (Summit) in there.
 
#16 ·
@ megora

Unless you must have puppy from the litter you are looking at I would suggest looking at Wynwood and Topmast in Michigan if you want an Obedience puppy.
While Wynwood leans towards field lines, Topmast (who is a Gaylans cobreeder) is more a combination of performance & field with conformation thrown in. Her 2012 summer breeding was super nice - Kamikaze X Chime - and some the puppies are impressing AKC judges that they train with and they are only 16 weeks old. I believe Topmast has a 2013 breeding - Ticket X Kerri. The Topmast/Gaylans dogs normally have good on/off switches.
 
#17 ·
Wynwood - I looked into them very first. But they have a LONG waiting list for the Journey litter.

Topmast - heehee. I don't think she'd approve of me. More likely than not I won't do agility and I do not have enough experience with obedience to edge me ahead of a lot of the other trainers who would be getting on her list. ;)
 
#18 ·
#38 ·
Congrats on your new puppy!! Love all the pictures, so glad that they are bestest of friends already.

I am late, but I thought I would add on anyways... The two things I looked for was eye contact and tugging. More than anything else I want a dog who wants to play with me.

Also I would like to repeat this. Picking Your Performance Puppy by Helen King is GREAT GREAT book! Helen also has a new book that is only available as a e-copy right now. I have heard the print should be out in the next month or so, but I have loved the e-version so far.

What's Your Angle
In this unique book, Helen describes a simple, step-by-step process for learning to see and understand angulation and structure for the performance dog. What's Your Angle is full of entertaining illustrations that help make the content easy to understand.
What's Your Angle? | Recipe to Win


I really like this book on the topic: Picking your Performance Puppy: Helen King: 9781475119428: Amazon.com: Books

It's available as an e-book.

I also like McDevitt's Puppy book. The section on what type of puppy to avoid - signs of future reactivity - is really good.

Didn't know you were getting a pup! How exciting!
 
#19 ·
Retrieving isn't that high on my list for puppy looking. I've actually found that the higher the retrieve drive, the more challenging to teach a formal retrieve, because while they always want to retrieve, they are more likely to want to do it "their way" at first. A dog with less natural retrieve experience is starting from scratch, so you can teach from the beginning exactly what you want. Of course I wouldn't put a natural retrieve drive as a negative, I just don't think it makes teaching a formal retrieve easier like many people think.

If I were looking at a conformation litter that hasn't shown to have natural drive behind it, then I would be looking for biddability. And confidence. The only reason Conner ever got as far as he did is because while obedience exercises weren't what he would naturally choose to do, he had that "I'll do whatever you want me to do mom, because I love you!" attitude. He just didn't have a lot of confidence, which is what kept him from getting even farther.
 
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#20 ·
Megora, what's with the picture of Jacks greeting a puppy? Have you got the new pup?

I've been interested to follow this thread . . . wondering how much obedience titles in the pedigree matter . . .how much you can really tell about a 7 or 8 week pup etc.
 
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#21 ·
I did bring him home. :eek:

OMG. I found myself saying "Good BOY Jacks" every couple minutes today and completely appreciating how gentlemanly he has been with the puppy. And playful. In fact, just a few minutes ago I had to take all his toys out of the room because he was trying to get the puppy to play with him. No mounting. No hormonal stress-outs. No growling or even looking like he's thinking of growling. :)

I'm sitting on my bed atm with Jacks laying in his usual spot on the pillows sound asleep. The pup (we are leaning towards naming him either James or Michael) is to my left at the foot of the bed and he's burrowed in against the crack of the wall and the foot boards where its cooler. He is a total hot water bottle! And hates being warm. And he wants to be right there with us. Or sleeping with Jacks. <- Like I was eating my supper and Jacks was sleeping under the table by my feet, and the kiddo went in and puppy piled with his big brother. And Jacks was happy to let him!

Puppy hasn't barked once. He nommed ALL his food down, with Jacks patiently waiting nearby for leftovers (there were a couple pieces for him). Refused to drink out of the big dog's bowl (I had to put out a cereal bowl for him to drink out of).

I haven't tried any training so far other than encouraging "comes" and training the "go duty" command. :) He's going to the vet tomorrow.

I can see already he is fearless and goes with the flow. I think he already likes me. :p: I'm not exactly doing the umbilical cord thing with him, but he wants to be right there in my face or underfoot.

He already likes being groomed and stands quite nicely while I brush him out (every time he went zooming around outside, he got covered with burrs).

Probably the only show of timidity that I've seen so far was when Jacks was barking (trying to get us to play) and he came running to me to sit quietly behind me. :eek:

My bedroom smells like puppy breath - despite his breath not smelling quite as bad as if he were 1-2 weeks younger.

But yep - Jacks already LOVES him.

And they left his dew claws on!!!!!! Which hopefullly means he will be easy to do toenails with. :crossfing



More pics tomorrow. We had a wintry mix going on out there while I took the few pics I did. It was rain and snow with some pebbly things falling too. So I hurried up and snapped as many as I could and ushered both boys inside. :wave:
 
#25 ·
He is a DOLL!! So, stinking cute!! Huge congrats Kate!!! Can't wait for more pictures!!
 
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#26 ·
Congrats, have fun!
 
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#29 ·
I'm starting to remember why I never wanted to put a training collar on Jacks that first year.... and didn't.

I pulled out all of our puppy collars and thankfully the smallest one fits (I think it was Danny's old collar). Pup is starting to learn how to walk on leash. And I'm so aware of how little he is.

And we are still waffling about names. :bowl:
 
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